New Church Organ...Possible Allen Q385 Suggestions...

[Guest]

I am the director of music for a Catholic parish in Houston, TX. Was doing some online browsing and came across this forum and thought I would add this thread for possible consideration and comments. </p>

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Our parish is starting the process for the purchase of a new organ. We have a brand new church that seats 900, and the organ we currently have is an OLD Baldwin console that has been estimated at 35-45 yrs old from the previous and much smaller church. None of the pistons work, many of the stops do not work, many of the stop draws pull completely out of the console---to give you some idea of the state of this instrument. Needless to say anything will be a nice upgrade from the current situation. </p>

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Being that I am a doctoral piano student I have differed to many of my organist friend from UH and Rice on this matter, but I wanted to get anyones personal experience with the Allen instruments. We are looking at the Q385c which is the 80 stop / three manual console quantum organ. The price we were given on this was $119, 770 which seems on the higher end so I think some negotiation will have to be done on that front. Nonetheless, this seems to be the best solution for our price range and will offer the most versatility.</p>

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All comments and thoughts are most appreciated....
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[nullogik]

Re: New Church Organ...Possible Allen Q385 Suggestions...

[quote user="ChopinGuy"]

Being that I am a doctoral piano student I have differed to many of my organist friend from UH and Rice on this matter, but I wanted to get anyones personal experience with the Allen instruments. We are looking at the Q385c which is the 80 stop / three manual console quantum organ. The price we were given on this was $119, 770 which seems on the higher end so I think some negotiation will have to be done on that front. Nonetheless, this seems to be the best solution for our price range and will offer the most versatility.[/quote]</p>

The Q385c is a very fine instrument - in fact its the one I'd buy if I won the lottery[;)]</p>

Allen instruments to be frank aren't cheap. </p>

You can buy similar specs elsewhere for thousands less (think Johannus/Viscount/A-G) but what you do get in return is a very solidly built (like a tank) and a very capable instrument. Allen are also well regarded for having very good after market support - such as parts availability etc and have a very extensive dealer and servicing network which is where some of the European brands fall down on.
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Its no secret that I'm a fan of Allen products on this forum. To me they get the job done, are totally dependable (I've yet to have an Allen fail on me) and are a real joy to play on. I find the consoles nicely laid out, everything is where you expect it to be and build quality is very good.
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Some people don't like the Allen sound saying it sounds too "processed", I personally love the Allen sound - but don't let my opinion sway you, go and listen to a couple of installations to see if you like the "Allen sound".</p>

I think in your circumstances the best way to choose an organ is to draw up a list of manufacturers and where possible go and demo some actual installations (or if you can't, then at least try out the dealership's demo models). You should also consider looking at the likes of Rodgers, Phoenix, or perhaps some of the European manufacturers mentioned earlier. </p>

Also consider after market support (Are parts readily available? Are parts readily available today for instruments that were new say 10 or 20 years ago? Is the local technician near? You don't want to be charged a couple of hours travelling time before they even get to touch the instrument. How long is the guarentee for and does it cover parts and labour for that full period - some only cover parts for half the warranty period).</p>

Best of all ask the opinions of organists at recent installations and even better ask if you can try them out. </p>

Good Luck
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[Guest]

Re: New Church Organ...Possible Allen Q385 Suggestions...



Thanks for the response, and that is all kind of what I was thinking. I have had the chance to play one of the new Allen Quatums, as the brand new cathedral in Houston has the top end 4 manual Allen console until their $4 million dollar pipe organ is being delivered in 2010. </p>

Allen certainly seems to have a good reputation and I do like the 10 years of fully covered service that the dealer here provides on their instruments. That aside I have heard some Rodgers that sound good and some that are not so good as well. Alot has to do with the quality of the installation and voicing---but I think I still give more of a nod to the sound, console, and build of the Allen organs. Now if it was my choice of electronic organs I would get one of the Ogletree's (spelling) like is in Trinity Wall Street in New York City. Those electronic organs are unbelievable....
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[jck56]

Re: New Church Organ...Possible Allen Q385 Suggestions...



Our parish has a 90's vintage Allen (MDS-55). We are very satisfied.</P>


One recommendation (with any digital organ), make sure you have a good sound system (quality well placed speakers, amp, additional channels if necessary). Sort of the same analogy of buying a high end tv with a poor antenna, the picture won't look good. If you have budget concerns, I would recommend downgradingmaybe one lower modeland pursue a high end audio system. The Allen dealer should be able to recommend the audio system.</P>


A good sound system and a good voicer are both paramount...</P>
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Good Luck</P>


Amateur Jerry</P>

[Guest]

Re: New Church Organ...Possible Allen Q385 Suggestions...



Thank you Jerry....</p>

The budget is not the issue, I just got input from other organists that the 120k seems the max, but the instrument should be able to be purchased for little less than that. As for the sound system, the Allen dealer here came out to see the space and we are lucky to have a large loft that is about 50 feet wide that goes across the middle of the church which allows for perfect placement and spacial seperation of the 18 audio channels in the Q385. I don't think any speaker compliments will be needed. Though a friend of mine played at a very large Methodist church where they had a brand new Rodgers that has a *triple* compliment of speaker arrays and that was totally over the top...that organ could easily blow the windows out...[:D]
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[clumber]

Re: New Church Organ...Possible Allen Q385 Suggestions...



See also the thread "New organ for our church".</p>

Andy
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[jck56]

Re: New Church Organ...Possible Allen Q385 Suggestions...

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As for the sound system, the Allen dealer here came out to see the space and we are lucky to have a large loft that is about 50 feet wide that goes across the middle of the church which allows for perfect placement and spacial seperation of the 18 audio channels in the Q385. I don't think any speaker compliments will be needed. Though a friend of mine played at a very large Methodist church where they had a brand new Rodgers that has a *triple* compliment of speaker arrays and that was totally over the top...that organ could easily blow the windows out
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You should be in great shape. Our sanctuary holds about 700 with a high clerestory. We have only 5 channelsalthough we havea second compliment of speakers plus the largest sub woofer Allen had. We do quite well. We are anticipating a churchexpansion, so a new organ and sound system will probably be needed.</P>
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Love to hear a sample after it's installed.</P>

[Guest]

Re: New Church Organ...Possible Allen Q385 Suggestions...



Still open to more discussion on the Allen, but I thought I would throw up this photo of the current organ to see if anyone knows the model, the age, or anything about this Baldwin console...</p>


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[Menschenstimme]

Re: New Church Organ...Possible Allen Q385 Suggestions...



I think that this is a picture of a Baldwin 640 from the early 1980s.</P>


That is an excellent image considering that it has been "thrown up." How did it taste? LOL!</P>


[;)]</P>

[jbird604]

Re: New Church Organ...Possible Allen Q385 Suggestions...



Indeed, that is a Baldwin 640. I'm sure it's way undersized for your 900-seat church. Not to mention being in a bad state of repair.</P>


Some people still enjoy these old organs, though. I know of a couple that are still playing and sounding quite good. Perhaps yours will find its way to an appreciative owner looking for a practice organ, or a small church that it can serve adequately.</P>


Problem with these older organs is the difficulty of repairing them. Yes, parts are still available for the Baldwin, but the workings are a little more obscure than with Allen or Rodgers and fewer techs are willing to tackle one with major problems.</P>


Hope you get that big new Allen or an equivalent Rodgers, etc. We serviced a wonderful four-manual Allen yesterday with about 18 audio channels. It was a Quantum-type instrument, but the model number was a Heritage series because of all the customization. But it sounded amazingly good and filled a large church the way an organ should. </P>


Your speaker chamber placement sounds quite fortunate. Too many churches are built with little thought given to organ speakers (or even pipes).</P>


Best of luck.</P>


John</P>
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[Guest]

Re: New Church Organ...Possible Allen Q385 Suggestions...



Thanks for the responses gentlemen...I certainly wish this organ was in better functional condition with all the stops working as well as the pistons. If that were the case, it wouldn't be so bad....but that on top of the fact it is substantially underpowered given the space of the church makes it that much more difficult to deal with...lol. But it is finally nice to know the model and the approximate age for this thing....it is in such bad shape cosmetically that everyone thought it was much older than early 1980s. Whomever had it before us must have really abused it as this organ was given to the parish...</p>

In any event, the Allen will be nothing short of a cosmic upgrade I am sure....Now if we can just find one nice and affluent donor...</p>

[Guest]

Re: New Church Organ...Possible Allen Q385 Suggestions...

[quote user="MenchenStimme"]

That is an excellent image considering that it has been "thrown up."  How did it taste?  LOL!
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[;)]</p>

[/quote]</p>

 Ha ha....I don't think my iPhone liked it too much given the state of that poor instrument... </p>

[nullogik]

Re: New Church Organ...Possible Allen Q385 Suggestions...



Sounds like you are going to have a one very fine Allen installation, Chopinguy. Thanks for posting, it would be nice to see a picture of the installation once its done.
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[Guest]

Re: New Church Organ...Possible Allen Q385 Suggestions...



So ironically I get a call today from a Johannus rep to see if my parish was in need of anything for our music department. I figured 'what the hey', and set up an appointment with them for Friday. I was wondering if anyone can tell me anything about the company or their reputation and technology. </p>

The gentleman told me that they use the same technology as Marshall &amp; Ogletree but does so on a more price accesible level. I don't know if that hold any water or not, but I am sure you wise gentlemen will be able to lend some ideas and how any of thier instruments might compare to the Allen Q385 as originally stated...
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[arie v]

Re: New Church Organ...Possible Allen Q385 Suggestions...

[quote user="ChopinGuy"]

The gentleman told me that they use the same technology as Marshall &amp; Ogletree but does so on a more price accesible level. I don't know if that hold any water or not, but I am sure you wise gentlemen will be able to lend some ideas and how any of thier instruments might compare to the Allen Q385 as originally stated...
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[/quote]</p>

This salesman makes me laugh. So now he is hitching the Johannus wagon to the M&amp;O horse. Did he say in what way it was the same technology as M&amp;O? Besides that they uses electronics and speakers. Oh yes, they both claim to be sampling based instruments.</p>

I seriously doubt that any Johannus organ could go head to head with M&amp;O. M&amp;O makes organs which are in their minds no compromise, where cost is really not a factor. They can and do it right, even if just the install and labour that goes into the final voicing costs more than many an installed Johannus.</p>

How Johannus squares up with an Allen........I leave that to more qualified posters to pronounce on.</p>

AV
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