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  • Hauptwerk



    Okay, I know very little about this, so little that you might as well assume I know nothing.</p>

    Here's the background: I had intended to buy a digital organ for home practicing. The funding for said organ has now disappeared, so I can't afford anything. I have a Yamaha Clavinova at home at the moment, in my hifi room, which contains my (high quality, 2-channel) stereo and pretty much nothing else. I own a laptop computer, not especially powerful.
    </p>

    Here come the questions: how easy is it to get started with Hauptwerk, and more importantly how expensive? Let's work on the assumption that I have zero skills in building anything physically, how would I go about setting up 2 manuals and pedals? Can I use my hifi for sound purposes? Can I run it from my laptop? In answering these questions, bear in mind that I'm in Dublin so very specific equipment may or may not be easy to come by.</p>

    I'd be interested in any and all opinions. Thanks in advance.
    </p>

  • #2
    Re: Hauptwerk



    I would suggest you first start with the MidiTzer (www.virtualorgan.com). For one thing, it's free and allows splitting of the keyboard. It's very easy to install and works on laptops. </p>

    I don't see why you can't take the sound output from your laptop and feed it into your stereo. That would work better than what I'm currently doing.
    </p>
    John
    Allen MDS-317 at home / Allen AP-16 at Church / Allen ADC-3100 at the stake center

    Comment


    • #3
      Hauptwerk &lt;-- may I suggest you to begin with MyOrgan?



      Hello!</p>

      Please excuse me if I didn't understand well your desires, and please excuse the short length of the message (I'll have to leave soon)</p>

      May I suggest you to check the totally free Myorgan software?</p>

      http://myorgan.sourceforge.net/</p>

      it seems to be similar to Hauptwerk 1 (Hauptwerk 2 and 3 are expensive and need much higher computer specs)
      </p>

      It is very easy to use, doesn't need top-notch resources (I think your laptop, if there is enough RAM, should do it).</p>

      Its polyphony seems to be quite good. </p>

      There is a big thread about "Using MyOrgan" on the Magle International music forum, you should check it out [;)]:</p>

      http://www.magle.dk/music-forums/405...g-myorgan.html </p>Best regards

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Hauptwerk



        That's precisely what I do with my Dell e1525. phone jack to audio in on the mixing board. Works like a champ!</p>

        Randy
        </p>

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Hauptwerk



          Simon,</P>


          I recently priced out the cost of a Hauptwerk setup, expecting it to perhaps be not only a fun but economical hobby. I already had an aged, butfully operational semi-digital/analog AGO console that would have served well for the purpose. I'm also electronically literate, and havehadquite a bit of experience in buildingvarious pieces of electronic equipment from scratch; not to mention being rather familiar with computer hardware and software.</P>


          Nevertheless, I found the idea of setting up a Hauptwerk system, rather intimidating. I've done some experimenting with midi connections between my Yamaha PSR-2000 arranger-keyboard and my computer using Cakewalk software. From that, I learned that there is no defined MIDI standard. Everyone just does their own thing, causing a such a host of aggravating problems, that it really wasn't all that muchfun. [:(] So I chucked that long ago.</P>


          The thing about setting up a reasonableHauptwerk system, if you have to buy keyboards, a pedal board, a computer, amplifiers, speakers, etal; by the time you are finished, the price tag is already close to<FONT size=4>£10,000. And still you don't even have a console, but just an assembly of key/pedal boards! So at the outset, you are making a heavy bet, that after spending some £10,000, and weeks of work, you are going to end up with something that actually works! [^o)] The downside of the bet, is that if you can't get it to work, you've just acquired £10,000 worth of useless, unsaleableelectronic components! [:(]</FONT></P>


          In reviewing some of sales stuff I received from Phoenix UK a while back, while investigating options for a new organ;for about the samecost as building a Hauptwerk organ, you canget a modestlyappointedII/30 Phoenix for about the same price; and if you don't like it, you at least have the option of selling it, and recovering a major amount of your initial investment!</P>


          Before making a decision, at least contactStephen Hamillhttp://www.phoenix-organs.co.uk/audio.html, discover what he can do for you. He's only a couple hundred km up the road from you. And he is not only a well known organist and composer; but one of the engineers who designed the Phoenix organ system.</P>
          2008: Phoenix III/44

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Hauptwerk



            If you are wanting an out of the box/turnkey solution, the HW is (at this point) probably not for you. In my opinion where HW really excels is in giving otherwise dated consoles a new lease of life. Take an old Allen or Rodgers from the 70/80s, you could pick one up for a few hundred dollars, add midi to it (look at www.midibox.org for an extremely cheap way of doing this) get a computer and the HW software and you have a state of the art system for perhaps $2-3K. Many people including myself have taken this route and have consoles which rival the very best for sound quality (again in my opinion) and have the flexibility of using many different sample sets. You do have to be prepared to take on some technical knowledge and wield a soldering iron, but it makes for an extremely interesting project and the results are well worth it!!</p>

            James
            </p>

            </p>

            </p>

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Hauptwerk



              Whoa Clarion! You bash the price of a Hauptwerk setup and then recommend a Phoenix? I have respect for the sound of newer Allen, Rodgers, and especially Phoenix organs. But to recommend a Phoenix over Hauptwerk based on price seems sketchy to me.
              </p>

              I get many inquiries about my setup from those looking to build something similar. Most end up dissappointed to find out that the bottom line has a comma in it. You know the saying "You get what you pay for"? In my opinion, Hauptwerk gives you the best bang for your buck when it comes to new digital instruments. If you want something that's plug-and-play, it's not going to be cheap. </p>

              I assume you priced out Classic's MIDI hardware. I know from many first-hand experiences that they stand behind their products and will not hang you out to dry when you have a question about hooking the parts together. The quality of their products is also very, very good. Professional organists have called my tracker-touch manuals the finest manuals they have played on (for a digital instrument). Each manual also comes with 20(!) configurable pistons. Their pedalboard is built to AGO (radiating, concave) specifications. Of course this stuff isn't going to be cheap!</p>

              You say for the same price you can get a "modestly appointed II/30" phoenix for the same price. Well, if you're going to be spending the money anyway, why settle for modest? I'm running 3 organs: a III/50 Cavaille-Coll, a II/32 Baroque, and a V/134 Concert Hall instrument. Each one is based on a real instrument, and as such, has a distinct character that makes them truly a joy to play. Also, the fact that Hauptwerk takes advantage of the resources of bleeding-edge hardware makes for a disturbingly realistic organ playing experience!
              </p>

              I know many Hauptwerk users who have cobbled together great setups for extremely modest amounts. Of course the tradeoff is that they're willing to get their hands dirty and pick up a soldering iron, and very resourceful when it comes to procuring parts from here and there. You can buy complete kits from Classic where you can be up and running with minimal effort, and as I said, Classic stands behind their products, so it's hardly a hodgepodge of random parts. I took the middle ground and started small, evolving my setup using parts individually purchased from Classic so I didn't have to rely on 3rd party parts from multiple sources.</p>

              To the thread starter, if you haven't already, check out my YouTube videos. My latest is the Gigue fugue using the Baroque instrument, and the rest are using the Cavaille-Coll. I hope to have something up using the V/134 soon enough.</p>

              Clarion, I want to be clear that I'm in no way knocking Phoenix instruments, I think they make some great instruments. I recently helped someone get a Hauptwerk system of their own setup. It was a bit frustrating at first getting all the hardware working just right, but he recently told me that the end result blows him away every time he sits at his console, and that he wouldn't have wanted it any other way. Consider yourself invited to test drive my setup any time you like. I'm positive I could make a believer out of you [:)]
              </p>

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Hauptwerk



                I really love the sound of the Phoenix!</p>

                But the sound of a Hauptwerk properly set-up is better than any electronic organ on the market. The other thing I like about it is that the organist, if competent with computers and electronics, is in total control of the set-up. Organists can be at the forefront of developing the system with the creator and advance the technology quicker than an organ manufacturer who will only release better technology when it thinks it will make more money out of it.</p>

                </p>

                Wow, Steffanusen! That YouTube video sounds amazing! The chorus sounds so alive.[:O]
                </p>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Hauptwerk



                  [quote user="Stefanussen"] Whoa Clarion! You bash the price of a Hauptwerk setup and then recommend a Phoenix? I have respect for the sound of newer Allen, Rodgers, and especially Phoenix organs. But to recommend a Phoenix over Hauptwerk based on price is nonsense. [/quote]</P>


                  Are you specifically talking about comparative pricesone living in Dublin, Ireland might expect? I was! </P>


                  [quote user="Stefanussen"] I assume you priced out Classic's MIDI hardware. I know from many first-hand experiences that they stand behind their products and will not hang you out to dry when you have a question about hooking the parts together. The quality of their products is also very, very good.[/quote]</P>


                  I am intimately familiar with the Classic Organ Company. They are located only a half-hour down the road from me; and built my previousorgan. </P>


                  [quote user="Stefanussen"] You say for the same price you can get a "modestly appointed II/30" phoenix for the same price. Well, if you're going to be spending the money anyway, why settle for modest?[/quote]</P>


                  When I susggested "modest", I was not talking about quality! All of Phoenix components are ofthe very highest quality.I was instead, referring to considering fewer stops.</P>


                  [quote user="Stefanussen"]I'm running 3 organs: a III/50 Cavaille-Coll, a II/32 Baroque, and a V/134 Concert Hall instrument. Each one is based on a real instrument, and as such, has a distinct character that makes them truly a joy to play. Also, the fact that Hauptwerk takes advantage of the resources of bleeding-edge hardware makes for a disturbingly realistic organ playing experience![/quote]</P>


                  All Phoenix organs come with three different organs: English Romantic, French and Baroque, pluse an orchestral instrument. 'Course, you aren't going to get a III/50, Phoenix or Hauptwerk tofit Simon'scurrent budget.
                  </P>


                  [quote user="Stefanussen"]I know many Hauptwerk users who have cobbled together great setups for extremely modest amounts.[/quote]</P>


                  I figure that replacing terms like "modest amounts" withactual an £££ figure would be a tad more helpful.</P>


                  [quote user="Stefanussen"]Of course the tradeoff is that they're willing to get their hands dirty and pick up a soldering iron, and very resourceful when it comes to procuring parts from here and there.[/quote]</P>


                  Simon has already stipulated that this kind of stuff is not his forte!</P>


                  [quote user="Stefanussen"] You can buy complete kits from Classic where you can be up and running with minimal effort,[/quote]</P>


                  So . . . I suppose not only Simon, but others here would be interested in how much this accumulation of parts might cost. You've already gone this route. How much are we talking about?</P>


                  [quote user="Stefanussen"] Clarion, I want to be clear that I'm in no way knocking Phoenix instruments, I think they make some great instruments. What I am knocking are your sketchy claims against Hauptwerk, and your prompt referral of the OP to the closest Phoenix rep.[/quote]</P>


                  And I'm in no wayknocking Hauptwerk instruments. I've already gone on record as saying that I think they are a great sounding organ!! I was only addressing a singular situation of a specific budget in a very specific location.</P>


                  And BTW, I did not merely refer him to "the closest Phoenix rep." I referred him specifically to Stephen Hamill, one of the primary design-engineersof Phoenix Organ system; not to mention being a well known concert organist and composer in Simon'spart of the world.And since Hamilllives about 150 km up the road fromSimon, whobetter than to address Simon's needs, one way or the other. ??</P>


                  [quote user="Stefanussen"]I recently helped someone get a Hauptwerk system of their own setup. It was a bit frustrating at first getting all the hardware working just right, but he recently told me that the end result blows him away every time he sits at his console, and that he wouldn't have wanted it any other way. Consider yourself invited to test drive my setup any time you like. I'm positive I could make a believer out of you [:)] [/quote]</P>


                  I'm already a believer! I think Hauptwerk is great.I just don't believe it is the best choice for Simon. And when it comes right down to it, I didn't think it was the right choice for me, as a singular option; notwithstanding, I did include a complete set of MIDI couplersfor my Phoenix, with the idea that I can always add a Hauptwerk system, at any time; not to mention all thegoodies that might be coming down the road in the future. Thecost for me to add a Hauptwerksetup to my system at this point wouldbe nominal; but already having three III/44 organs-in-one plus an additional III/44 orchestral instrument, Ihaven't really been overcomewithan irresistible urge to add anything more to an instrument that is already so overwhelmingly complete!</P>
                  2008: Phoenix III/44

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Hauptwerk



                    [;)][quote user="Greg"] But the sound of a Hauptwerk properly set-up is better than any electronic organ on the market. The other thing I like about it is that the organist, if competent with computers and electronics, is in total control of the set-up. Organists can be at the forefront of developing the system with the creator and advance the technology quicker than an organ manufacturer who will only release better technology when it thinks it will make more money out of it.[/quote]</P>


                    Well, there you go Steffanusen. That's two of us in the last hour, giving you two thumbsfor Hauptwerk! [;)]</P>
                    2008: Phoenix III/44

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Hauptwerk

                      [quote user="SimonS"]

                      Here come the questions: how easy is it to get started with Hauptwerk, and more importantly how expensive? Let's work on the assumption that I have zero skills in building anything physically, how would I go about setting up 2 manuals and pedals? Can I use my hifi for sound purposes? Can I run it from my laptop? In answering these questions, bear in mind that I'm in Dublin so very specific equipment may or may not be easy to come by.</p>

                      I'd be interested in any and all opinions. Thanks in advance.
                      </p>

                      [/quote]</p>

                       #1 -- you need to visit the Hauptwerk forums and ask this question there, and not here.  HW website, go to the forums.</p>

                       #2 -- if you have a modern dual core laptop with 4G of RAM, you can run HW quite well -- not every sample set mind you, but many great ones.  There is at least one excellent sample set for all of $100 (FBR), and the HW Basic Edition will bet you started.  If your Keyboard(s) have midi out, it's most likely that HW can accommodate them.  Keyboards are pretty well standardized -- at standard midi note-on and note-off messages.  Nothing exotic.  You can control the organ from your laptop screen with a mouse until you decide to do something more sophosticated -- and this is quite adequate for a starter set.  You  can start out with  an existing stereo in the home, or nothing more than a good set of headphones.  It is not necessary to start out with $15,000 worth of exotic audio. A good sound card (or USB or Firewire box) is nice to have, but whatever audio is in your laptop can probably get you going.</p>

                      #3 -- Pedalboards are another issue.  But it's the same issue for HW as it would be for Miditzer or anything else.  HW doesn't cost extra in this regard.  You need a new midi pedalboard, or an old pedalboard with with mechanical or reed switches that can be wired to a midi controller,  or just an old pedalboard that you add all the switching to. This is the hardest part of any HW setup if you can't purchase on off the shelf midi pedalboard.</p>

                       You can get a lot of enjoyment out of a relatively modest HW environment.  Many HW users do just that, without having to take out a second mortgage on the house :)</p>


                      </p>

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Hauptwerk



                        Thank you all for your suggestions and comments. I really appreciate the time taken to respond, and the expertise behind the posts.</p>

                        My plan as it stood was to buy a Phoenix, and I had already made initial tentative contact with Mr. Hamill in this regard. However, the budget I had set aside for this has been somewhat wiped out by recent events, and while it's still my first choice for a one-stop solution, I thought it might be possible to do something a little cheaper. That said, any time I read anything about alternative solutions they seemed</p>

                        a) not THAT much cheaper when I started to put everything together, and</p>

                        b) more hassle than I was willing to endure.</p>

                        Basically, I'm a lazy, lazy man, and chasing up bits and bobs on the internet, brandishing a soldering iron, and trying to figure out how to put a decent and satisfying instrument together are not how I want to be spending my evenings. After all, it's hard enough to find time to play the organ as it is. Simply put, a home practice instrument would have to be a time-saving device rather than a time-intensive project. I have plenty of "real" practice instruments at my disposal in churches, so this is purely a question of convenience. To that end, while I'm happy to spend some time to get things up and running, it defeats the purpose if it becomes a "labour of love" kind of project, rather than a "set and forget".</p>

                        I have no doubt whatsoever that once up and running, the HW solution is excellent, but it certainly sounds like it's not for me at this stage. Better start saving!</p>

                        </p>

                        Thanks again everyone!
                        </p>

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Hauptwerk

                          [quote user="Stefanussen"]

                          I'm running 3 organs: a III/50 Cavaille-Coll, a II/32 Baroque, and a V/134 Concert Hall instrument.
                          </p>

                          [/quote]</p>

                          Out of interest what are the specs of the rig you are running this setup on? Is this a dedicated computer for Hauptwerk or do you use it for other work and leisure purposes? The reason why I ask this is that you'd probably want the computer to run at optimum levels so stuffiing it full of antivirus software and games etc. are likely to affect performance and perhaps cause the computer to stutter. Do you advise on having a dedicated machine?</p>
                          1971 Allen Organ TC-3S (#42904) w/sequential capture system.
                          Speakers: x1 Model 100 Gyro, x1 Model 105 & x3 Model 108.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Hauptwerk



                            This is a really great thread -the comparison of turnkey digital organs with Hauptwerk. This is my experience with the 2 genres. I have owned several organs through my career as a performer. A couple Baldwins, a Rodgers, a Johannus, and a Viscount. Each served me well as a practice instrument, and definitely had the ease of plug and play, except for initial voicings at installation. This is a wise approach to purchasing an organ if you want an instrument to just practice or play on.</p>

                            As an adjunct to doctoral studies, I built a harpsichord and became a piano technician. That concentration led me into minor organ maintenance and tuning, so when I read about Hauptwerk and gradually launched into putting together a Hauptwerk organ, I have become an absolute evangelist for the value of Hauptwerk. While other organs made such claims as "voicing and tuning on a note by note basis, control of attack, etc, etc." in Hauptwerk I found a digital simulation of a real pipe organ in every respect. </p>

                            With Hauptwerk, I am able to voice, tune, reshape, etc, every single pipe of every single rank on every organ I have. Each adjustment is as simple as sliding a digital switch on a well designed interface. One of the sample sets I own is a Casavant from a church in Canada. Although slightly smaller, it is so similar in design to the Casavant in my church - even built the same year, that I have been able to voice it, so that it sounds like the organ I play regularly. With the use of a nice reverb unit, I have even recreated the acoustics of the church. Hence - now I can practice daily in my own home on the organ which is in my church, 20 miles away. For my experience, it doesn't get much better than this.</p>

                            This ability to "adjust and tweak", doesn't have the appeal to all organists as it does for me. If you want an organ that comes ready to play and practice on, without any further thought for the possibility of exploration into what makes an organ tick, than maybe Hauptwerk is not for you. And that is definitely alright. Most pianists don't tune their own piano.
                            </p>

                            </p>
                            Roy E. Knight, DMA

                            Hauptwerk 4-manual digital
                            Hammond B-3, Leslie 122, PR-40
                            Hammond A-102, Leslie 125, PR-40

                            Church; Cassavant 3-manual, 70 rank

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Hauptwerk



                              You may get some idea for the specs of Stefanussen's rig by watching his videos, here's his youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/stefanussen</p>

                              I don't know the intimate details, but it looks to me as though he's running a seperate computer for HW, and doesn't use it for anything but HW.
                              </p>

                              Comment

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