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I am a Hauptwerk convert! I want you to evangelise you!

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  • I am a Hauptwerk convert! I want you to evangelise you!



    Yesterday, I downloaded MyOrgan and I thought that was a really good programme.</p>

    This morning I downloaded an evaluation copy of Hauptwerk 3. I am absolutely blown away (forgive the pun) by it. I think it is a fantastic concept and really does give electronic organ builders a bit of a run for their money. It was dead easy to set-up, basically plug in your midi cable and play! It comes with a sample set and to be honest, it just rendered my early 90's Viscount as just crap tonally. Complete with stop movement noise and the wind noises I was impressed not only by the sounds but also the chorus build-up. Hauptwerk has obviously done something to beef up the bass and I was surprised at the definition and weight of the lowest pedal notes, even on my mediocre console speaker system.</p>

    I downloaded one of the free organ sample sets from the net. It was a chamber organ of only five stops but it seemed to faithful reproduce the nuances and wind unsteadiness. I had a wonderful couple of hours playing from my Old English organ music for manuals.</p>

    The evaluation copy does not seem to be time limited, but it does have a dinging bell that plays every few seconds.</p>

    This software seems ideal for a home set-up but I would be interested to know if it works well as a church set-up. Is it better than in terms of sound and chorus than digital organs?</p>

    I want to buy a full licensed copy but I need to replace my MIDI system to one that will work the swell and pistons system.</p>

    The other big drawback is the price. At a hefty $500 (£350) I am sure that is beyond most people's pocket. The organ sample files are not cheap either, many of them costing over £100 per set. In my opinion, Crumhorn Labs need to re-think their pricing strategy and bring down the price of their products that would attract more people and perhaps have an aggressive advertising campaign in the organ/music magazines. There must be lots of organists who have an ageing digital/analogue instrument who cannot afford to buy a brand new instrument but would like to upgrade what they already have.
    </p>

  • #2
    Re: I am a Hauptwerk convert! I want you to evangelise you!



    Greg,</p>

    Whoa!. You're a convert already? See, I told you. The latest Hauptwerk with a good sample set with some decent multi-channel audio is superior to just about anything else out there. It is more authentic, more visceral, and more satisfying, than any electronic organ except maybe a Marshall &amp; Ogletree or a Walker. </p>

    In terms of a church setup, that is possible, but then it is better to use a traditional console, and use a single spec. The system now using a Mac Pro and it's own environment with Hauptwerk is quite stable. Certainly in terms of sonic results, it is already superior to what the traditional vendors offer. The ensemble sound is definitely better than standard models. Remember, best results are obtained with considerable effort in adjusting all the levels, tuning, audio routing, placement of speakers etc.</p>

    I'm still not sure why you think it expensive, unless you can't afford even that amount. Certainly a lot less than ready made organs that don't sound as good. I suppose you think that these folks who do the developing are non-profit organizations who are there to fuel your organ passion. The real world I'm afraid is not quite like that.</p>

    Anyways, I'm sure you will find Hauptwerk a most rewarding concept.</p>

    AV
    </p>

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: I am a Hauptwerk convert! I want you to evangelise you!



      There is a basic version of HW3 which is $249 USD. And while there are rather expensive sampled organs, there are several free ones and others which are quite reasonably priced. For instance, a Casavant 3 manual available for around $200 Canadian which is about 110 UK. And a splendid English organ of 40 stops for 185 UK a mini version of which is 75 UK pounds.</P>


      Rob</P>

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: I am a Hauptwerk convert! I want you to evangelise you!



        Greg,</p>

        Welcome to the Hauptwerk family!! Everyone who visits my home becomes nearly as enthused as I, especially when my digital organ is compared side by-side with Hauptwerk. Nearly always someone says, now that really sounds like a pipe organ! Not only is the ensemble full and weighty, as you have found, but individual stops are wonderful, especially when you arrange them in typical pipe chest layout formats.</p>

        As you are looking for less costly sample sets to get started, I highly recommend the St. George's Casavant which is listed on the sample set page of Hauptwerk. It costs $200 and IMHO is still one of the nicest sets available, at any cost.</p>

        To really enjoy Hauptwerk, I would receommend that you start with the Advanced system, since all the voicing options are available to you. It costs more, but the whole reralm of Hauptwerk is open to you -- the Hauptwerk software is what makes all the sample sets came alive. Then add free or inexpensive samples to your collection, and with the Advanced edition of Hauptwerk, you can fine tune even cheap intruments to sound great.</p>

        Just a warning --- you will eventually want some of the more expensive sets. In addition to the Casavant, I have Milan's dry Skinner, Kampen Hinz, and Virginia Theatre; as well as the Zwolle 4-manual baroque. I use them all, but my favorite is still the less expensive St. George's Casavant.</p>

        By the way, I started with 4 cheap Korg keyboard MIDI controllers, and added the Classic Organs pedal clavier. ou can always upgrade as funds become available.</p>

        Enjoy!</p>

        Roy
        </p>

        </p>

        </p>

        </p>

        </p>

        </p>
        Roy E. Knight, DMA

        Hauptwerk 4-manual digital
        Hammond B-3, Leslie 122, PR-40
        Hammond A-102, Leslie 125, PR-40

        Church; Cassavant 3-manual, 70 rank

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: I am a Hauptwerk convert! I want you to evangelise you!

          on a similar vein....how does one go about recording soundsets? I'd like to get my home pipe organ recorded as a soundset for the day it goes to a church and I'm left "organless"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: I am a Hauptwerk convert! I want you to evangelise you!



            [quote user="NYCFarmboy"]on a similar vein....how does one go about recording soundsets? I'd like to get my home pipe organ recorded as a soundset for the day it goes to a church and I'm left "organless"[/quote]</p>

            Aloha NYCF,</p>

            Are you going to become *organless* soon?  What's happening? Or could this be your way to mentally prepare yourself before you transition into *assisted living*?  I do admire your forethought although.......Might you be a senescent Anglophile?:  Last_of_the_Summer__306802a.jpg 385×185 pixels</p>

            Humbly,</p>

            K-phone </p>

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: I am a Hauptwerk convert! I want you to evangelise you!

              well my goal is to get my Reuter 822, plus 412 plus 195 (2 complete organs plus a few ranks from the 195) into my family's church someday. Whether it happens in the next few years or is decades away I dont' know..but that is my definate goal. The organ I have belongs in a church and for its long term survivability it really should be in a church. Home organs only last as long as their owners...and in my case hopefully that will be for a long time, but I'd still rather the organ be in a church (my family's) where it would be used and had a chance of being cared for long term.


              If that happens sooner rather than later I'd be thrilled!

              IN which case I'd probably get another pipe organ for my house but at the least I'd like to have it "documented" so I can operate it via Hauptwerk ...digitally....for ever! :)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: I am a Hauptwerk convert! I want you to evangelise you!



                [quote user="NYCFarmboy"]well my goal is to get my Reuter 822, plus 412 plus 195 (2 complete organs plus a few ranks from the 195) into my family's church someday. Whether it happens in the next few years or is decades away I dont' know..but that is my definate goal. The organ I have belongs in a church and for its long term survivability it really should be in a church. Home organs only last as long as their owners...and in my case hopefully that will be for a long time, but I'd still rather the organ be in a church (my family's) where it would be used and had a chance of being cared for long term.


                If that happens sooner rather than later I'd be thrilled!

                IN which case I'd probably get another pipe organ for my house but at the least I'd like to have it "documented" so I can operate it via Hauptwerk ...digitally....for ever! :)[/quote]</p>

                Aloha NYCF,</p>

                Thanx for sharing your thoughts and how ultimately you would like to see your wonderful project serve in God's honour. It is so cool to read resolutions like yours.</p>

                Cheerio,</p>

                K-phone   : - ) </p>

                 </p>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: I am a Hauptwerk convert! I want you to evangelise you!

                  Reading the Hauptwerk Forum and having heard the sets personally and those by our colleague stefanussen I am also blown away.  Apparently a set with the resources of the CC at St. Etienne de Caen will soon be on the market and maybe a set with that of the CC at St. Ouen in Rouen.  Of course, the latter might be just wishful thinking on my part.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NYCFarmboy View Post
                    ....IN which case I'd probably get another pipe organ for my house but at the least I'd like to have it "documented" so I can operate it via Hauptwerk ...digitally....for ever! :)
                    Did you ever find the information you needed? Perhaps we should start a new thread on sampling as I am interested in that also.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I believe that version 5 of Hauptwerk should come with a Second Life plug-in to improve further on the simulated reality of organ-playing. Some of the new features that this version could offer include the following:

                      1. Use sensors to detect seasonal changes in temperature and humidity and cause the entire instrument to drift slightly out of tune, but by differing percentages on the various ranks.

                      2. Use a pseudo-random generator to cause ciphers to appear unexpectedly (always, however, at Sunday service times or during recitals), drawknobs to stick, and blower motors to develop noisy bearings.

                      3. Include the background sound of stage-whisper "commentary" and fussy infants during all pianissimo passages.

                      4. Generate realistic verbal and physical confrontations between troublesome choir members and the organist.

                      5. Allow the organist to place a virtual service call to an overworked technician and then wait impatiently for a week or two while said technician "repairs" the virtual instrument.

                      Seriously, I notice that the original poster in this thread was entranced by the stop and blower sounds of the St. Anne's organ that is sent free with Hauptwerk. Please! These sounds, and many of the other "effects" in Hauptwerk and other V.O. packages, would be judged annoyances or outright defects in a real pipe organ. Why would we want them in a simulation? For the same reason Minnie Pearl kept the price tag on her hat--to prove how much we paid?

                      I have philosophical objections to Hauptwerk and other sampled-sound techniques, but I will save those for another time. I can see the usefulness of Hauptwerk in preserving historical organs and allowing their virtual study around the world; the above infomercial aside, however, I do not see Hauptwerk taking over the electronic organ-building world in the next five years. No matter how robust the platform, Hauptwerk is complex software running on a personal computer; those of us who fight such beasts on a daily basis know that they simply are NOT robust, at least not all the time. Maintaining them takes extensive expertise and a little luck and guesswork--a far cry from the straightforward board replacement needed to get a conventional digital organ back in operation.

                      I suppose that once I am proven wrong and Hauptwerk does replace dedicated electronics, organ servicing will, like the organs themselves, be done virtually. I can envision Geek Squad cars parked outside churches of the future, their bespectacled drivers huddled over the organ consoles muttering "maybe if I flash the BIOS . . . " or "looks like a registry error." And for churches on a budget who cannot afford real service calls, virtual assistance would be available from a call center in Bangalore.

                      Don

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Don,

                        Weirdly, your post did not appear in the 'new posts' section of the forum. I guess I'm still having trouble finding my way about the new (since 2010!) forum layout, but to your point: Indeed, your humorous suggested features for the 2nd life version of Hauptwerk 5 could easily be implemented, and some people might actually find them quite charming. I would add the cleaning lady who vacuums or church secretary coming and going distractingly during practice sessions. Occasionally an alarm system snafu where you cannot access Hauptwerk because they changed the combination and did not tell you. Etc. Actually, you make a wonderful case for virtual organs!

                        But as to your prediction: "I do not see Hauptwerk taking over the electronic organ-building world in the next five years" I think you may be mistaken. I am more than a little skeptical of your prediction because:
                        1) Although I have no numbers to back this up, I suspect the total number of Hauptwerk systems sold last year is approaching or exceeding the number of major name consoles sold
                        2) The market is changing - Hauptwerk in my opinion is a "Disruptive Technology" which while (as you rightly pointed out) perhaps not ideal for the decreasing church organ market, is perfect for the primed to grow home market.
                        3) The 1960's and 1970's were anything but conducive to church music, yet there were thousands of Spinet organ's sold (much to everyone's chagrin, they are coming up for disposal now in abundance). Why was this? My hunch is that there was and probably still is, a large market for home instruments of the theater organ or classic church organ type, and the spinet was realistically the only affordable option...it did not satisfy, therefore they became unused furniture, but the need for a home instrument was still there. Hauptwerk and its clones have now advanced to such a degree that they will soon have the potential to fill that need, not only for young students wishing to play their own instrument at home, but amateur and professional organists who prefer the privacy and convenience of home practice.

                        There is no substitute for a real organ for a real performance. Hauptwerk will not replace that, however a new, and possibly underappreciated market is developing, and I predict Hauptwerk iorgans will outsell 'fixed configuration' Allens and Rodgers in the near future, probably less than 5 years, if not already.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DellAnderson View Post
                          Hi Don,

                          Weirdly, your post did not appear in the 'new posts' section of the forum. I guess I'm still having trouble finding my way about the new (since 2010!) forum layout, but to your point: Indeed, your humorous suggested features for the 2nd life version of Hauptwerk 5 could easily be implemented, and some people might actually find them quite charming. I would add the cleaning lady who vacuums or church secretary coming and going distractingly during practice sessions. Occasionally an alarm system snafu where you cannot access Hauptwerk because they changed the combination and did not tell you. Etc. Actually, you make a wonderful case for virtual organs!

                          But as to your prediction: "I do not see Hauptwerk taking over the electronic organ-building world in the next five years" I think you may be mistaken. I am more than a little skeptical of your prediction because:
                          1) Although I have no numbers to back this up, I suspect the total number of Hauptwerk systems sold last year is approaching or exceeding the number of major name consoles sold
                          2) The market is changing - Hauptwerk in my opinion is a "Disruptive Technology" which while (as you rightly pointed out) perhaps not ideal for the decreasing church organ market, is perfect for the primed to grow home market.
                          3) The 1960's and 1970's were anything but conducive to church music, yet there were thousands of Spinet organ's sold (much to everyone's chagrin, they are coming up for disposal now in abundance). Why was this? My hunch is that there was and probably still is, a large market for home instruments of the theater organ or classic church organ type, and the spinet was realistically the only affordable option...it did not satisfy, therefore they became unused furniture, but the need for a home instrument was still there. Hauptwerk and its clones have now advanced to such a degree that they will soon have the potential to fill that need, not only for young students wishing to play their own instrument at home, but amateur and professional organists who prefer the privacy and convenience of home practice.

                          There is no substitute for a real organ for a real performance. Hauptwerk will not replace that, however a new, and possibly underappreciated market is developing, and I predict Hauptwerk iorgans will outsell 'fixed configuration' Allens and Rodgers in the near future, probably less than 5 years, if not already.
                          Dell, as usual you make a good and well-defended point. I was thinking of organ sales to houses of worship and other institutions when I wrote my comment. You are entirely correct that V.O. software together with a plentiful supply of used consoles is opening up a completely new market for serious AGO instruments in private homes. To this extent, I believe Hauptwerk and its ilk have a very bright and prosperous future; any trend that puts high-quality organs in more hands (and under more feet) has to be viewed as positive.

                          As I noted above, however, I believe we have a way to go before software-based organs equal the reliability of dedicated electronics in institutional settings.

                          Like you, I have noticed some recent posts absent from the New Posts page, although they appeared in their normal places and lay within the requisite time window. It must be a software glitch (proving the point I made above?).

                          Don

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by don60 View Post
                            ...You are entirely correct that V.O. software together with a plentiful supply of used consoles is opening up a completely new market for serious AGO instruments in private homes. To this extent, I believe Hauptwerk and its ilk have a very bright and prosperous future; any trend that puts high-quality organs in more hands (and under more feet) has to be viewed as positive. ...
                            Don, Agreed. I would only add that in my opinion, this market is not entirely new, and that it does not depend on used consoles - the future of NEW consoles is MIDI console with customizable stop tab configurations compatible with Hauptwerk and other modular, MIDI compatible organs. I simply cannot imagine that Allen, Rodgers, or any of the proprietary organs (including Johannus) can compete with generic, interchangeable, volume discount priced off-the-shelf PC hardware.

                            And properly configured, I have found the PC's I have built to be every bit as robust as commercially available, custom built (Such as Allen or Rodgers 'computer' organs), most of those of which I have personal knowledge have 'issues' that have gone on for long periods without repair because of the bizarre organ technician model required. True, hard drives fail, but one does not need a hard drive to operate a PC (one can boot from CD or from solid state drive). The rest of the computer is VERY reliable, especially if one chooses an industrial quality power supply.

                            Given the low volume of organs to PC's in general, it is not surprising that it would be MUCH easier and cheaper to find someone to repair or replace a generic PC than the $1000/card custom 'computer' organs which like anything man-made, can and do fail. I have yet to learn of an organ that never had at least a minor problem. Even the expensive modern pipe organs of which I am aware have combination action problems or some other similar SNAFU, so I do not believe data that says that Allen and Rodgers are inherently superior electronically.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Not to belabor the point, but I still believe that a church organ must be configured such that all that is necessary to make it play is to simply operate the switch. I don't believe that any PC-driven system is yet capable of that. One should flip the switch and be able to select a few stops and play. No action to "boot up" the computer or initiate a program should be required. Not every organist is a PC guru and not every one wants to be.

                              MHO
                              David

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