Again on Johannus Hard discount

[Guest]

<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US">Hi all,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US">After reading the “Why” statement published on the Johannus USA website, I do have a couplerof thoughts and questions I’d like to share with you</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US">They state that their hard discount policy is due to two main factor (cut’n’paste)</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US">a) “..The worldwide economic crisis, prices of raw materials are decreasing. Because of the very modern and flexible way of producing organs (we never back-stock organs) and clever negotiations with suppliers, Johannus is able to implement benefits like this immediately.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US"><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ansi-language:EN-US">b) “the Dollar/Euro rate is getting back to normal”</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">Both of these reasons are not product-related, so why I can not buy<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>a small VIVALDI two manuals with the same discount? Why this offer is limited to some models only? Are the other models overpriced like<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">  </span>“other digital organs in the market” (as they say)?</p><p class="MsoNormal">As the point b) can affect the 15%, (about) of the price it means the other 35 come from the point a). </p><p class="MsoNormal">As row materials are used by all the M.I and C.E. manufacturers, why the others are not able to apply the same discount? That  means that Johannus has a better “purchasing power” than Roland, Yamaha, or Philips, Matsushita, Sony ? [:S]</p>

[nullogik]

Re: Again on Johannus Hard discount



That "Why" button is a new addition to the website - it certainly wasn't there when I first saw the promo. Someone at Johannus must be monitoring these and other forums and are trying to allay fears based on speculation (i.e. leaving the US market, closing down, end of line models etc.)</p>

As for the falling price of raw materials - have they really fallen by that much such that Johannus can pass on a 50% discount to customers and still make a profit?? If so, then this makes the likes of Allen, Rodgers etc. look bad since why are they not offering discounts - surely their raw material prices must have been affected in a similar way. </p>

"... And we want to show that in our opinion, other digital
church organs in the United States are often over-priced."</p>

In which case, why not lower the price of all the organs in their range? They now seem grossly "overpriced" if these four instruments can be offered at a 50% discount. After all, the non-discounted instruments in the range surely use the same raw materials as the discounted range?
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[arie v]

Re: Again on Johannus Hard discount



Nullogik,</p>

This "why" explanation, is somewhat bizarre. </p>

Besides, the fact that it is only in the US and only certain models, and that it is a 'limited time' offer, their explanation rings rather hollow. The other thing it does is, Johannus has now set the price, not the dealer. I don't know what kind of arrangement they have with their dealer, but someone somewhere is taking a hit. My guess is that the dealer may get some business, but will be working on a commission basis for Johannus. </p>

This idea of raw materials costs is bogus, as it seems only to affect prices on 4 models and only destined for the US.</p>

My guess is that the real reason for this half price sale is to generate business for Johannus at the expense of Allen and Rodgers, and make Allen and Rodgers dealers look like bandits robbing poor churches and individuals. 3 manual and 4 manual organs are real bread and butter instruments in the electronic organ business. No one makes real money selling entry level organs. Number of units just aren't there.
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The other thing that might be a problem for them, is what does it do to future sales after the sale is removed. </p>

I think it also shows that Johannus sales in the US have declined along with everybody else. </p>

At the least, it got folks going to the Johannus web-site to check things out.</p>

AV
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[jbird604]

Re: Again on Johannus Hard discount



I seethat the offer specifically states these are "special edition" models. No doubt there are some features that have been left off these special modelsto save money, and this accounts for some of the price reduction.</P>


Also note that the pricesdo not include delivery and installation.Because you can't really buy the organ WITHOUT paying for delivery and installation,the dealer will still be the one to set the bottom line price. But those prices do command ones attention, don't they!</P>


I'd say best wishes to EVERY company trying to sell organs these days. May all their tribes increase.</P>


John</P>
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[Guest]

Re: Again on Johannus Hard discount

[quote user="jbird604"]

I see that the offer specifically states these are "special edition" models. No doubt there are some features that have been left off these special models to save money, and this accounts for some of the price reduction.</p>

[/quote]</p>

 </p>

My SONY CD-player was a cheapo version of a high-end one, cause didn't feature IR remote control and some software functions... If you look closer to it the IR sensor is there. So it's only missing the remote, and - worst case - a chip to control the IR function... How much does that cost to the manufacturer? A few bucks for sure... How much was the difference in price at the local Hi-fi store? 50$ or more that is about 1/4 of the overall price... So what? So, stripped-down versions like these ones, cost nearly the same as the normal ones in terms of raw materials, as they say.</p>

I've got to say, odd things out there. </p>

Nevertheless a big bargain... </p>

[Guest]

Re: Again on Johannus Hard discount

[quote user="jbird604"]


I seethat the offer specifically states these are "special edition" models. No doubt there are some features that have been left off these special modelsto save money, and this accounts for some of the price reduction.</P>


Also note that the pricesdo not include delivery and installation.Because you can't really buy the organ WITHOUT paying for delivery and installation,the dealer will still be the one to set the bottom line price. But those prices do command ones attention, don't they!</P>


John</P>
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<P mce_keep="true">John is correct. For example, on the Rembrandt 397 SE, a 32' Contra Violone has been substituted for the standard 32' Subbass. This evidently saves several thousands (!)of dollars in the size of the sub-woofer required. Also left off are the 8 general toe-studs to the left of the expression pedals. This is expensive hardware that many organists evidently never use. Also missing are the antiphonal speakers, although the circuitry is still present in the console. One last item that has been removed is the up &amp; down light on the music desk. </P>
<P mce_keep="true">One additional cost saving item from Johannus' perspective<U>may be</U> that Johannus has an inventory of their previous design consoles that they can't use without creating a Special Edition. Keep in mind thatI am only referring to the cabinet -the rest of the organ is current Platinum Edition hardware and software. And of course, delivery, installation, voicing and the dealer's labor warranty are not included in the SE advertised price. </P>
<P mce_keep="true">However, it is worth noting that every one of these removeditems can be added back to the SE, and other upgrades added as well, such as wood-core keyboards and plexiglas music desk and the sequencer in a drawer, etc. This will still be a current, made to order instrument, and the price of the Rembrandt 397 SE with all of the standard items added back is still well under $40k - a substantial savings over their regular pricing.</P>
<P mce_keep="true">Of course, all of the above is just rumor until we actually place the order - which should be in about two weeks. [:D] I just hope they don't run out of consoles before we pull the trigger. </P>

[jbird604]

Re: Again on Johannus Hard discount



Bill,</P>


Thanks for thedetailed explanation about the SE pricing. That is exactly thestory I got from a dealer. As you say, the SE price is a bargain, even if you add the missing features back in a la carte, so to speak.</P>


One thinig I'd definitely do is go for the 32'Subbass with the powered subwoofer. That will add several hundred dollars to the cost but will greatly improve the pedal division. Not so sure I'd care about the toe studs -- I'm one of those organists who'd rarely use them. The lighted music rack may be worth the extra charge too.</P>


Go ahead and "pull the trigger" as soon as you can! This offer could be canceled at any time, though I suspect it will go on for quite a while, until the economy picks back up at least.</P>


John</P>
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[Guest]

Re: Again on Johannus Hard discount

[quote user="BillG"]<p mce_keep="true">a 32' Contra Violone has been substituted for the standard 32' Subbass. This evidently saves several thousands (!) of dollars in the size of the sub-woofer required. 
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[/quote]</p>

LOOOL! [:D]</p>

[jbird604]

Re: Again on Johannus Hard discount



MB,</P>


The reason for the higher price on the 32' Subbass is simple. That stop is basically a sine wave with a bit of third harmonic, so the fundamental frequencies all the way down to 16 hz must be produced withenormous power. To pump out that kind of power, the most expensive high-power subwoofer is required, which has its own amplifier built in.</P>


The 32' Contre Violone is a stringy stop, with only a touch of fundamental frequency in it. It can be produced by the very inexpensive standard woofer.</P>


That accounts for a cost difference of several hundred dollars to the dealer. So Bill's remark is not that far off, just a little exaggerated.</P>


That's one reasonwhy there are vast differences in sound quality between poor digitals and excellent ones.</P>


John</P>
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[Guest]

Re: Again on Johannus Hard discount



To update, we have ordered the Rembrandt 397 SE and anticipate delivery in June or July. We added back a few of the removed features, including some of the toe studs and the 32' Subbass pedal stop, although we are using a substitute subwoofer that our dealer is providing. (merrybench - you might ask your Johannus dealer about the price difference between the UL3300 and the UL5000, and you'll see why we aren't getting the UL5000.)</p>

One other thing to share with the group: we have several committee members who are professional musicians with presumably discerning ears, and they all agreed that the Rembrandt 7 series organ was the best they saw and heard in our price range (below $60k). And that was before the special pricing was announced. Granted, we did not listen to every organ available. In particular, we considered (and hoped to listen to) the Phoenix organ, but we are very satisfied that we have made a good choice for our congregation. Of course, the proof is in the pudding, and I'll report back after the organ has been installed and "broken in", so to speak.</p>

Bill
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