Allen Q325 & Q300

[Guest]

I am searching for an organ for my church. We are replacing a destroyed (flood)Allenwith another Allen. I have looked at other digital organs and have decided that M&O is out of the budget and Allen is the next best thing for us. I am torn between the two models (325 & 300). There is a $20k difference in price. Besides the obvious (38 stops vs 50 stops) does anyone elseknow a difference that I am missing? I would like to justify the price difference for the committee (and myself for that matter).

[clumber]

Re: Allen Q325 & Q300



You know that there are other folks who make fine digital instruments too, right? It's not just an Allen vs. M&amp;O choice you have... </p>

Walker, Rodgers, Johannus, and Phoenix all make digital instruments... and you can include Eminent and probably a couple of others that I can't remember right now... what are your needs?
</p>

Andy
</p>

[arie v]

Re: Allen Q325 &amp; Q300



Pnutpup,</p>

Besides the 12 extra stops the audio is bigger on the Q325. The audio on the Q320 is 4 channel internal, but can also add external speakers to it. The Q325 has 7 audio channels (6 standard plus a bass channel). I'm not sure that accounts for all the $20K difference in price, but will be part of it.</p>

My guess is that the Q320 is more designed for residences and smaller rooms like chapels than the bigger Q325.</p>

</p>

AV
</p>

[Brandon Tuomikoski]

Re: Allen Q325 &amp; Q300



I have personally played the 300. It is the greatest non- pipe organ- organ that I have ever played.</p>

 Excellent. Even though only 38 stops- it will build to a massive full organ. </p>

 </p>

I think 50 stops will give you more choices- some more reeds- a 32' reed. More strings.</p>

 But if you can get past that, you should at least try both, but I think the 300 is just perfect. (and the one I played had internal speakers!- imagine it with external!) </p>

[Guest]

Re: Allen Q325 &amp; Q300



Kindly excuse my jumping in here, but I play an old Allen in a small church, and I have only recently begun thinking about getting it replaced. I'm really not ready to call the Allen salesman at this time, mostly because I do not wish to be hounded by one (as I've heard organ salesmen often do), but would it be considered "not exactly cricket" to inquire as to where one might obtain fairly accurate prices of Allen's various models? If that is not possible, how about an approximate price for the Q300? I've never been on an organ hunt before, and hardly know where to start, so I thought I'd give this group a try, so that when the time is right, I can line up possible donors at my church and speak with at least a small degree of authority. Stops and ranks and bells and whistles I can quote from organ mfr's websites, but prices? I'm fairly stumped on that one. Thanks!</P>


Percy K</P>
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[Guest]

Re: Allen Q325 &amp; Q300



Kindly excuse my jumping in here, but I play an old Allen in a small church, and I have only recently begun thinking about getting it replaced. I'm really not ready to call the Allen salesman at this time, mostly because I do not wish to be hounded by one (as I've heard organ salesmen often do), but would it be considered "not exactly cricket" to inquire as to where one might obtain fairly accurate prices of Allen's various models? If that is not possible, how about an approximate price for the Q300? I've never been on an organ hunt before, and hardly know where to start, so I thought I'd give this group a try, so that when the time is right, I can line up possible donors at my church and speak with at least a small degree of authority. Stops and ranks and bells and whistles I can quote from organ mfr's websites, but prices? I'm fairly stumped on that one. Thanks!</P>


Percy K</P>
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[Brandon Tuomikoski]

Re: Allen Q325 &amp; Q300



Well I hope it will not scare you away.</p>

The Q300 at my store- internal speakers- brand new- sold for $61,700. </p>

 </p>

Now that is very expensive. But it is the best you will ever get. If I had $61,700, I would buy it. But alas- I do not have that kind of money. </p>

[clumber]

Re: Allen Q325 &amp; Q300



$61,700!!! For internal speakers!
</p>

Yow! Call Phoenix!</p>

Andy</p>

Hey, it's just my opinion!
</p>

[arie v]

Re: Allen Q325 &amp; Q300



Hi, </p>

Or if money saving is a priority, call Johannus organs, who are currently marketing some organs at 50% off. A large 9 channel organ, lighted drawstop organ for $23,000 plus delivery, installation and taxes. Try beating that!</p>

AV
</p>

[Guest]

Re: Johannus



Percy,</p>

I highly recommend that you look at the Johannus organ. They currently are offering Special Editions that are really great values, as Arie has mentioned. Our church has a Rembrandt 397 SE on order and the Texas Johannus rep was great to deal with. I guarantee he won't "hound" you - as you can imagine if you look at the special pricing, he's pretty busy at the moment.</p>

We looked at and listened to "all the usual suspects" while conducting our search, but the Johannus sound and vaule really impressed us, even <u>before</u> the special pricing was announced. </p>

I sent you a Private Message with contact information. PM me back if you need any more info.</p>

Bill
</p>


</p>

[Guest]

Re: Johannus



I'd really like to look into this Johannus deal, but without any financial backing from the church, I'm afraid they might pull the rug out from under me, leaving mefinancially responsible and then what? I'm probably going to regret this, but I need to stick by my original plans and just see who is selling what for how much.</P>


What you say about Johannus organs and their sound and their prices is all quite appealing, but I can't help but wonder why Johannus management would do such a thing, especially during our troubled economic times. My family still living back in the UK and Ireland tell me that everytime they drive into townto do some shopping or to see a doctor,one business after another is boarded up. Countless houses and shops stand half-built, their owners having run out ofenough money to finish the job. Unemployment figures over there make us look quite secure over here. Could Johannus also be affected by all this, too? Maybe they saw what happened to Ahlborn-Galanti (discussed ad nauseam in another thread around here) and decided to sell their economy models just to reduce their inventory, and then consolidate their assets and concentrate on more expensive models. I do hope Johannus isn't doing this prior to closing, but you never really know, do you?</P>


Too bad this Johannus deal is running NOW, while I may not be able to get the fundraising apparatus at church rolling for several months. Besides, for me to rush into something like this without showing a church committee comparisons of other organs and their prices would, doubtless, doom my proposal from the onset. Moreover, they might even ignore future proposals, accusing me of being bloody generous with their money. And I'd end up stuck with the current organ for the rest of the time I stay there.</P>


I have an excellent relationship with my church and I don't want to ruin it for the sake of something that sounds like a good deal. There's more at stake here than just replacing the organ. It may be old and sound dreadful at times, but at least it still works.</P>


However, I thank you most sincerely. Right now, Johannus heads up my list of organs to investigate.</P>


Cheerio,</P>


PK</P>
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[arie v]

Re: Johannus



Percival,</p>

I'm by no means a Johannus insider, but I can tell you that if the company us run in typical Dutch fashion, it is likely that the company has no debts, they have an efficient production methodology, have a slick marketing department, etc. Also I have been told that the owner is a person of considerable wealth.</p>

This sale that Johannus has put up is not a distress sale, and does not have anything to do with Ahlborn-Galanti. Also, Johannus does not have an inventory of organs sitting in a warehouse waiting to be sold. Johannus organs are built to order.</p>

My guess is that Johannus is doing this at this time for the following reasons,</p>

1) organ sales industry-wide are slow, the sale is designed to generate sales activity. It is already doing this.</p>

2) improve market share in a time of decline, this means hurting the competition as much as possible</p>

3) catch their competitors off-balance. They are forcing the competition to in some fashion answer their 50% off pricing.</p>

4) the models on sale are in an important category. These are the models that generally generate good profits for both builder and dealer.</p>

I'm sure the competition is not at all happy with this move by Johannus. At a time when organ sales are hard to come by, corporate income in the dumps, having a competitor pull off something like this, other builders executives must be scratching their heads trying to figure out how to deal with this.</p>

AV
</p>

</p>

[Guest]

Re: Johannus



Percy,</p>

I guess I understand your reluctance, but I think it's a good idea to start educating yourself about the options out there. Our organist/DM was really surprised that there were good instruments available for under $50k from every company, but it had been a long time since he looked at the market. If you are a professional organist (by that I mean you get paid to play), I think that you owe it to yourself to stay abreast of the current technology and market pricing.</p>

One thing to understand about Johannus - as far as I can tell, all of their organs are built to order. If a dealer has an organ for demonstration purposes or for sale, they have ordered it and paid for it. Johannus doesn't have an inventory sitting around anywhere that they hope to unload at fire-sale prices. And the Special Edition organs are not economy models, they are all based on the top of the line versions of their standard models. They evidently do have an inventory of the empty consoles from the previous generation of Rembrandts that they couldn't use unless they created a "Special Edition" to use them in. The good news is that these are what Johannus describes as Deluxe consoles, and are nicer (in our opinion) than the current consoles. </p>

However, I think that the main reason that they are offering Special Editions at this time is to keep production levels up in their plant. Since they build only to order, they don't want to risk losing their experienced staff, and have come up with a creative way to keep production going during this economic downturn. The Johannus owners didn't build a debt-free company, by some accounts the <u>largest </u>digital organ company, by making bad business decisions. Of course, past performance does not guarantee future success, but it does offer some guidance.
</p>

I know that raising the funds for a new organ might seem like a big hurdle, but the reality is that it's the easiest fund-raising project I've been associated with in my 30 years involvement with church finances. Heck, even if your church isn't interested in upgrading their organ, you might decide that you can't pass up that Opus 37 SE for your house! That's the decision that our organist/DM is struggling with at the moment.</p>

Bill
</p>

[Larrytow]

Re: Allen Q325 &amp; Q300

I play a Q325 at my church and absolutely love it ! I have not played or even seen the Q300, so I can't say the exact differences. Ours has the Vista on it and I would encourage you to get an Allen with the Vista no matter what model you go for. Whatever stops are missing from the organs spec can be added via the Vista. Our Q325 has no Swell 4' reed, so I add it from the Vista . Our whole installation was about 65K including the antiphonal speakers and the large Subwoofer.

[Brandon Tuomikoski]

Re: Allen Q325 &amp; Q300

I can not see how a 325 is that cheap. Considering it has 22 more stops than a Q300- plus external speakers- it would be around $76k vs $61 for the Q300 with internal speakers.