Going from Piano to Hammond

[CEB]

I don't know if anyone is interested but I think a good discussion might be on playing technique and issues when you transition from Piano to Organ. </P>


A Hammond is not a Piano. It is not just the hardware differences. It is everything.</P>


When I was young I formally studied the piano for a longtime. I was fair piano player but when I moved to organ I was awlful for a longtime. </P>


The technique is totally different and it took a while to catch on and figure out the differences. When I was in college I met a great Nashville session player who taught me a lot about how I needed to change my approach when playing a Hammond. If it hadn't been for him I don't know if I would have ever caught on. </P>


I am still a better piano player than a organ player. But after 35 years I can finally fake it well enough people think I know how to play organ....sometimes.</P>

[Brendon Wright]

Re: Going from Piano to Hammond



I agree with you CEB.</P>


I remember back when I was having lessons in both, my piano teacher complained that I played like a pianist, my organ teacher complained that I was playing like a pianist! I later complicated the mix by teaching myself lead guitar. I now play blues scales on the piano and organ, and solo in major and minor scales on the guitar.</P>


However, a few important differences (there are loads, but I'm supposed to have started work an hour ago. The glorious indugence of a freelance cartoonist!)are wrapped up in the actual finger technique... and the lack of a sustain pedal. Playing legato on the organ is like playing legato on a guitar.... you have to transition smoothly from finger to finger because the only other option is staccato! My piano teacher hated me sliding about like that! However, it works great if you're playing a piano sound on synth and forgot to bring your sustain pedal!</P>


Another important thing is expression: you MUST use the swell pedal to bring in your fortes and pianissimos or there's no life in the thing. The swell not only increases volume but tone, like thumping the hell out of your ivories on the ole pianna! The swell can be kept moving all the time, like breathing andemphasis inspeech from word to word.</P>


Hang, I'd better get working...</P>


Back later!</P>


Anyone else got a word or two on this?</P>


-Brendooon</P>
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[Brendon Wright]

Re: Going from Piano to Hammond

Actually, my piano teacher complained that I played like an organist. Just trying to confuse you there...

[CEB]

Re: Going from Piano to Hammond



Thanks. That is so right.</P>


A big a-ha moment for me was when I realized how forearm pressure came into use on the piano but not on the organ. The organ is gentle finger pressure without the need for any of thatwrist snap.</P>


It was actually learning how to play organ the helped me figure out how I actually played piano. Before organ I just played piano the way I had been taught. When I started playing organ and Darrel started helping me see the difference in how the two instruments are approached I started to learn what it was I did when I played piano instead of just doing it. </P>


A lot of organ technique relies on what I was taught was bad piano hand posture. The way my palm ride over the keys whe I play organ..... cause you use the palms for smears. If I had done that in front of my piano teach she would have tapthe bottom of my hand with that pointer of hers. God bless her soul.</P>


There are still nights I catch myself playing blues scales like a piano player. It doesn't sound right.</P>
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[Brendon Wright]

Re: Going from Piano to Hammond

It's also a lot easier to bug your neighbours on the organ!

[bossbandbob]

Re: Going from Piano to Hammond



After playing piano for years (still do), I bought my first real
organ, an M3, a couple of months ago. I have played keyboards with
organ patches and leslie sims for the last several years as well.
Although I am enjoying the M3 &amp; Leslie immensely, I'm glad I saw
this thread as I just thought it was me- as I can't seem to master the
beasts yet! Of course missing a few lower octaves doesn't help either.
I'm also trying to learn to use the bass pedals smoothly. Good point
re. the swell pedal, Brendon, I need to use that way more.</p>

Bob</p>

[Brendon Wright]

Re: Going from Piano to Hammond



Of course, I haven't mastered changingdrawbars or presetsas you go, but traditionally that's even what you do on a stopsbased organ.</P>


One chap here recently said he looks at the drawbars as a shape, much as we look at words when reading, I guess, without reading every letter.</P>


As a pro, there should be a splash of colour change here, pull out more of the palate there...</P>


A bit of a Monet performance using drawbars instead of chunks of paint!</P>


Can't say I'm there at all....</P>

[Fenrirlupus]

Re: Going from Piano to Hammond



[quote user="Brendon Wright"]I remember back when I was having lessons in both, my piano teacher complained that I played like a pianist, my organ teacher complained that I was playing like a pianist![/quote]</p>

 </p>

erm...  your piano teacher complained that you played like a pianist?</p>

i think we all know what you really mean there...  unless your piano teacher has something against pianists...  that would be strange and awesome at the same time...</p>

 </p>

i can't afford lessons, or a piano.  i just know that playing piano hurts my fingers...  that's all i need to know.</p>

i really should take lessons sometime though...  even though i think i'm coming along nicely compared to the majority of youtube users...  (with the notable exception of some people who also use this forum...  yes, if you're reading this, i'm talking about you organgrinder...  you're great.) </p>

[redoctoberff]

Re: Going from Piano to Hammond



He did correct himself...</P>

[JJMcS]

Re: Going from Piano to Hammond

[quote user="Fenrirlupus"]


[quote user="Brendon Wright"]Iremember back when I was having lessons in both, my piano teacher complained that I played like a pianist, my organ teacher complained that I was playing like a pianist![/quote]</P>


erm... your piano teacher complained that you played like a pianist?</P>


i think we all know what you really mean there... unless your piano teacher has something against pianists... that would be strange and awesome at the same time...</P>


[/quote]</P>


It sometimes seems that piano players think God gave them 10 fingers and they allmustbe used as often and as rapidly as possible. It is like they are playing "Whack-a-Mole" with the keys. On the organ, sometimes one finger, one key, one minute says it all. Maybe kick the Leslie to fast somewhere in the middle.[:D]</P>

[Guest]

Re: Going from Piano to Hammond



I'm trying to make the transition, too, from piano. CEB, any tips you can share that you got from that session player? Would love to hear some wisdom you've gained in learning and playing... </p>

[Brendon Wright]

Re: Going from Piano to Hammond



Heya CEB, MarkW et al!</P>


How are you getting on with the transition to the king of instruments?</P>


I'm a crazy fellow, but I probably have enough happy experiences to impart to your playing. Where to start though?</P>


(Phew, the family's out, I've just had the last flat white coffee for the Day, and a great LP from my collection is on the turntable. I'm unusually content feeling!)</P>


One of the coolest things is hearing yourself on a recording and letting others indulge you by listening in. Have you got a laptop with a built in mic?</P>


We could share a few clips back and forth. I'm about to turn over to side 2 on the record, but if you report back here and tell us what you're finding new, easy, hard, it's easire to impart information into a rolling conversation.</P>


Hope to catch you again soon,</P>


Mellow B</P>


PS. Here's a recent clip to show what I mean. Ask questions if you like it!</P>


Here's the direct download link:</P>


http://furfsw.bay.livefilestore.com/...e.mp3?download</P>


If that doesn't work, as has been the case lately from widows skydrive, go to the following link and clip on the main music icon. There's other stuff in there you might like too. Clip's titled "Crossover Change" after I adjusted my leslie's crossover!</P>


http://cid-0d7741cc63af1adc.skydrive...r%20change.mp3</P>
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[CEB]

Re: Going from Piano to Hammond



The transition is going as well as it ever will I guess. I wasn't really clear in my posts. I started my transition about 30 years ago and about 20 years ago was when I finally started to get a decent handle on what I was doing in terms of organ.</P>


I thought this would be a good discussion topic because the nature of the two instrument is so different that the transition between the two can be really challenging. It was for me.</P>


But then I see guys like Bill Payne who make everythinglook easy.</P>
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[Guest]

Re: Going from Piano to Hammond



Hi Brendon,</p>

Loved your clips! Really nice sound, and great pace to your playing. Do you play in a band at all, too? </p>

I don't have a way to record myself right now, though I could probably figure it out soon. I think my main problem is playing with a group that's guitar heavy, and there's not always obvious space for the organ (their frame of reference is more for an organ laying down a blanket as a sustain in the background, but naturally that gets boring!) I've been working in some solos, which is going okay, I think. One thing is figuring out what to do with my left hand while soloing and even in general -- i've seen guys live who are comping, and I'm not sure if they're hitting particular notes or just a mash of keys to get that percussive bop sound. </p>

I'm brand new at this, so partly I just have to get used to the sound and feel compared to piano. I've got a long way to go...and I've only met a few b-3 players in person, so I'm trying to make some contact on-line. Great to have this forum!</p>

-- Mark </p>

[Brendon Wright]

Re: Going from Piano to Hammond



G'day Mark!</P>


I'm supposed to be working at the moment, but my heart's in the Hammond foruminstead.</P>


Just as well I'm self employed, I only have to answer to my exasperatedbusiness coach!</P>


I've been in a RnR band on guitar for 18 months, other than that its been keyboards and guitars at church forever..... but I pulled out of that the same time I joined the band. I play at church with one band only, once a month.... all old rockers from the 70s (when I was still in nappies!) and we hit the progrock and funk sounds instead of the contemporary rock sound there. I'm on the C3 there, but I haven't got a leslie for that yet, just the Hammond PR40. Kon's zener overdrive sounds DEEEE-licious on that all the same.</P>


I find the left hand comp I developed on piano works well on organ as well, and I almost always do it with variations, unless I'm playing some sort of Bach-y minor counterpoint runs in a baroque style instead.</P>


There are of course loads of different LH techniques, each unique to the individual player.</P>


One very common in Jazz is toplay the exact same note on the lower which is being played on pedals. This also means youcan end up with great pedal technique!</P>


I like to syncopate between the bass note and the next octave up, often with a few on the fourth or fifth (so on Dm, I'm also chucking in someA's and G's) but I don't usually play them as chords, just a sort of mechanical riff of single notes while my mind's one either the pedals orsoloing in the right hand... the right hand however, can settle on some sort of repetitive arpeggio or something while the left wanders about instead...</P>


Ishould record my normal compfor you... though I'd better twist my neck back to thebusiness of work for now....</P>


Cheers!</P>


-Brendon</P>