I now have a C-2 w/DR-20 Tone cabinet

[Guest]

Very nice! It doesn't[:(] work!</P>


It got tipped by the in-experianced movers and leaked a good amount of oil. What do I have to do to clean this up?</P>


The Amp was disconnected; the lady said they got it serviced and played it till it stopped working....They were going to get an upgrade done onit; I assumed she meant they were going to add percussion; I mentioned this and she agreed. * she also mentioned solid state but I have her e-mail so I will try to nail it down; she is a very gracious lady!</P>


The amp is not secured to the organ; I am again assuming the upgrade would entail adding tubes and minor circuitry to the amp and some tablets or knob(s) to the Console. So the amp was disconnected in preparation for the Mod?</P>


Again I don't know how to proceed; any help at all would be much appreciated!</P>


I am still learning how to play an organ (my first instrument is guitar) and my first song is "Green Onions"</P>

[TheAdmiral]

Re: I now have a C-2 w/DR-20 Tone cabinet



Congratulations. Hammonds always come back to life with a little help.</p>

I wouldn't worry about the oil. It shouldn't have had enough in it to spill. Just wipe it up. Try to make sure it is Hammond oil. If it was something else then put Hammond oil in to flush it.</p>

You'll probably have to reinstall the amp to see what your overall situation is before progressing further. There are plenty of pictures and schematics on the internet as well as help here on the forum. Some posted pictures of the open back and amp would make it easier for us to diagnose. When you say it is disconnected do you mean all wires are unsoldered from it? The amp only bolts down with a couple of screws. We'll need a much more detailed description to assist. You'll soon be a Hammond tech!
</p>

[toasterDude]

Re: I now have a C-2 w/DR-20 Tone cabinet



Don't worry - it can be broughtback for sure.Worst-case scenariois that maybe the amp died, and then when they said they were considering an upgrade, they might've meant a replacement solid-state preamp. Seems like it was kind of in vogue to swap out those crappy, obsolete old tube preamps[:O] for nice modern solid-state models there for awhile, a few years back! Even so, it could be fixed.</P>


But take it from me, you'll probably never know exactly what the sellers might've been up to.So Admiral is right, the thing to do is start with what you're looking at right now, and go from there. But you'd be surprised at how easily these old Hammonds bounce back. They built them to last! Good luck and keep us posted.</P>


TD</P>


PS my first song was Green Onions too... good choice!</P>

[Model E & Me]

Re: I now have a C-2 w/DR-20 Tone cabinet



Which got tipped and leaked oil? If it was the console, the advice you got was correct, mo-p it up and re-oil the tone generator with genuine Hammond oil according to the instruction plate.</P>


If it was the DR-20, the oil was from the reverberation unit. Again, no harm done, but more oil to mop up.Leaking oil from the reverberation unitwould not cause any operability problems, so it should not be top priority on your list. We can help you with that after you have the thing going.</P>

[redoctoberff]

Re: I now have a C-2 w/DR-20 Tone cabinet



dna9656, do you live in the Seattle area? I saw this exact C-2 on craigslist yesterday. I'm glad someone on the forum grabbed it, as I didn't have the money or means to do so, especially on such short notice. It looked like a great find, second owner, right?</P>


As for the Trek II percussion, how much modifying is required to install the unit? I always thought it just went into the cheekblock and was wired appropriately into the amp...unless the owners simply didn't know what to do and took apart the amp to fix it. It sounded like that might have been the case.</P>

[Guest]

Re: I now have a C-2 w/DR-20 Tone cabinet

The Trek II perc. is actually pretty simple to install. You basically connect it into the presets in the back, then wire it into the volume box (err... thats on a CV, not sure about on a C-2). From there, the only connections into the power amp are for its power supply.

[Guest]

Re: I now have a C-2 w/DR-20 Tone cabinet



There is oil in the DR-20? CRAP it rode on it's back! No sign of leakage though; I will be opening it up this weekend to see what's going on in there.</P>


I have a AO-29 Amp from an M-3, that amp has percussion in it already; I have the tablets from the donor M-3 as well; could these be used to add percussion to my C-2?</P>


I have some Leslieunits from 2 M/N 328XXX Hmmonds I scrapped recently. I have thesolid statereverb and main amps as well as the reverb tanks and the circuit board that's connected to them. Could or even should I consider using these? Using the amps is somewhat un-settling asI am a tube sort of guy...</P>


The original equipment amp is 100% free of the rest of the organ, not connected in any way. It's sitting on the T-243 bench as I type this out.</P>


There is a modesty board with this organ! There is a pull chain lamp underneath to light the pedals! How Quaint!</P>


Yes I live in the Puget Sound area; Port Orchard to be more exact and yes I got this from Craigslist! My buddy Andy (he's a bigger CL nut than I am) sent me the link to the posting, while he was offering trades for the organ I was offering cash realized from the sale of an Epiphone Firebird 7guitar I really didn't NEED to sell butdidn't playmuch. The nice lady saidI was the first to respond and sohad first dibs on the stuff! Aparently there is no Tone Cab cord.</P>


So this weekend I will open the DR-20 for cleaning and inspection and be taking a closer look at the TG on the C-2. I will take pictures and will have to refer to some past posts from Brandon from the Land Down Under (or very near there) made for my benefit on how to post the pics!</P>

[redoctoberff]

Re: I now have a C-2 w/DR-20 Tone cabinet



Refer to thisthread re: adding percussion with the AO-29 and tablets:</P>


http://organforum.com/forums/thread/80944.aspx</P>


Not sure if it'll work on a console. Someone with more expertise will need to chime in here.</P>


Three of us in close proximity! And two in Port Orchard, sounds like.Ideal for maintaining a monopoly (or triopoly...thing) on local Hammond/Leslie gear. Now I just need to find my first console...</P>


Are the Leslie motors two-speed? If so, would you consider selling them? I'm looking for a pair to use in my DIY Leslie project, and haven't had a lot of luck on Ebay thus far.</P>

[TheAdmiral]

Re: I now have a C-2 w/DR-20 Tone cabinet

[quote user="dna9656"]


</p>


I have a AO-29 Amp from an M-3, that amp has percussion in it already; I have the tablets from the donor M-3 as well; could these be used to add percussion to my C-2?</p>

[/quote]</p>

Yes, you can do it. Refer to the link posted in an above message. Since your amp it totally out of it then it would be almost as easy (wish I hadn't written that) as putting the original back in. There are plenty of us to assist. You'll need the M3 matching transformer otherwise it appears you have all you'll need to add percussion.</p>

It is important that we know which AO-29 you have. What is the suffix number/letter after the 29? If it is the field coil model, you'll have to add a resister where the field coil was. </p>

The added advantage of the M3 amp is you'll have a monitor/speaker until you get the required Leslie!
</p>

[Model E & Me]

Re: I now have a C-2 w/DR-20 Tone cabinet



The R in the tone cabinet model indicates it was equipped with reverberation. The D series tone cabinets were long before the necklace or tank type reverberation units were developed.The reverberation unitconsisted of long vertical springs inside brass tubes, <U>some</U> of which were filled with oil to provide the proper damping. They were usually covered with a cloth cover to keep the dust out. After all this time, who is to say whether there was any oil left in the tubes or whether the reverberation unit is even still there. Probably of little consequence either way - by now most of the old crystal transducers have failed and very few oil units still work. Hammond put out a service bulletin in the 60s describing how to replace a failed oil unit with a tank type.</P>

[toasterDude]

Re: I now have a C-2 w/DR-20 Tone cabinet

[quote user="Model E &amp; Me"]


Hammond put out a service bulletin in the 60s describing how to replace a failed oil unit with a tank type.</P>


[/quote]</P>


Thanks ME+ME, your post reminded me to look on theatreorgans.com to see if they had this TSB listed. Sure enough:</P>


http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq...TSBs/TSB49.pdf</P>


Everything you'd want to know about replacing the old "oil" reverb with the more familiar tank-typeunit(aka "type IV").</P>


I would only add the following: if the reverb in DR20 doesn't work, don't trash it automatically. Check the tube at the reverb recovery stage first (a 6SC7 if I recall). In my experience this stage seems to be the weak link (after the crystals). </P>


TD</P>

[Model E & Me]

Re: I now have a C-2 w/DR-20 Tone cabinet



[quote user="toasterDude"]I would only add the following: if the reverb in DR20 doesn't work, don't trash it automatically. Check the tube at the reverb recovery stage first (a 6SC7 if I recall). In my experience this stage seems to be the weak link (after the crystals) [/quote]</P>


Good point. Most DR-20 cabinets had separate amplifiers for reverberation, connected to the power amplifier with a set of plugs. All the circuitry should be checked, especially the tubes and most especially the 6SC7 input tube. That tube is usually of metal shell construction, and the only ways to verify that it is good are a tube tester or direct substitution.</P>

[Guest]

Re: I now have a C-2 w/DR-20 Tone cabinet



On using the AO-29 to add percussion, how is the Type designated? The serial numbers of my 2 M-3s are as follows 83047 Form A-1 (Donor) and 84271, Form A-1 I think the type can be determined but the serial number cut off on the schematic....</P>


What is a "Matching Transformer"?I see no separate(from the amp) transformerin the M-3. So as relates using theAO-29 to get percussion; I need more basic instructions on how to do that using the AO-29. Adding a resistor is easy; WHERE isn't. I can solder, have heat sinks and solder braid to remove solder. There is a big thing on the back of the speaker for anM-3; are we calling that a "MatchingTransformer"?</P>


The DR-20...Serial # 42738...I'm not sureI want to fool with that oil filled reverb, I saw nothing onhow to remove the reverbin the TSB; it will have to be done through the top and probably the bottom as well. Anybody ever do this? I have 2 reverb tanks from the 328XXXs I had. I kept the circuit board that was attached to them; are they the preamps? I looked at the TSB on installing the reverb Hammond sold to dealers; I don't know that it would apply to these reverbs. Are the kits Hammond sold still available? What do you guys think?</P>


Can I install a Leslie from the 328XXXs? Seems I need to install a kit, switch on the C-2 (what style was the OEM? Location?) connecting to the DR-20 through a cable for power and signal. Could I use the amp in the DR-20 or do I use the amp in the C-2.</P>


I'm getting the feeling that the C-2 has an amp to run 1 speaker "dry" and sends a line level audio signal to the DR-20's amp to drive the reverb speaker. If that is so is there any reason I can't use the DR-20's on board amp to run the Leslie AND the reverb set-up?</P>


On the original C-2 Amp, the glass of the tubeon the extreme left is loose; the other glass tubes have lots of gray crud on the inside; you can't hardly see in there at all; does that mean old tube,bad tube, or old tube about to go bad?</P>


I have pictures now if anyone needs to see anything.</P>

[redoctoberff]

Re: I now have a C-2 w/DR-20 Tone cabinet



What do you mean by "type"? Field coil vs. PM speaker? That can be determined from the specific part number of your amp, H-AO-29-?. The last digit or two will indicate which type it was. Search the forum for TheAdmiral's thread on how to determine the speaker type from that number. He'll probably post it here shortly as well.Seeing as howthose two (Form A1 meaning the earlier walnut cabinetplus what look like mid 50's serial numbers) are probably older M3s they are most likely field coil. </P>


This is further indicated by the "big thing on the back of the speaker" that you mentioned; that's the field coil for that speaker. If the other M3 doesn't have it, it has a PM (permanent magnet) speaker.</P>


The matching transformer is a part that combines the signal from the drawbars into a more streamlined audio signal which is then run through the vibrato circuitry, etc. of the amp. You need the M3 transformer because it has the proper wiring for the separate percussion signal. It looks something like this:</P>


</P>


Resistors only need to be added in two locations if the amp waspaired witha field coil speaker; one if it was a PM speaker. I think it's a 700 ohm, 25 watt resistor between the wires that went to the field coil (I think they're black and red) and an 8 ohm, 20 watt resistor between the wires that carried the audio signal to the speakers. These wires should be green and black. (Once you've identified the speaker wires, the other two wires coming from the same connector/plug on the amp will be the field coil wires.)</P>

[Guest]

Re: I now have a C-2 w/DR-20 Tone cabinet



What I love about this place is the education I get in terms I can usually understand! </P>


Always in a timely manner too!</P>


The suffix on my amp's part number is 1F; and the big thing on the back of the speaker looks like a coil; it certainly DOES NOT look like speakersI grew up playing with; they must have been permanete magnet types.</P>


I looked for thematching transformerin the picture, I think the one in my organ is oriented downward, I can feel a common screw on the convex side but I can't get my fingers around o the front (key side) of it to feel for the other screw.</P>


Today I have learned that the amp in my C-2 is a PRE-amp; now what I know about them isn't much; it's job is to take the tiny current induced at the tone wheels and increase it to a level the power amp can use. In my guitar ampsa lot of tone is formed and can be controlled there so I assume the PRE-amp in this application does the same thing only I don't see the kinds of tone controls my Marshall Guitar amp has.In guitar amps the more tubes in the PRE-amp section the fatter the tone; if this holds true for Hammond organsLaurens knew what was going on for sure; BUT I see what I think are pre-amp type tubes in the power amps of Hammonds. My PR-40, the amp in the DR-20 (is that a HR-1?)has a load of the same tube as does the AO-29-1F.</P>


I looked at a HR-1 schematic and it hasn't near the number of tubes the amp in the DR-20 I have does; could I have a different amp?</P>


Mine is totally disconnected; I learned from the former owner that they got it serviced in '02, played it 'for years' were going to go solid state; then it stopped working so then they just let it sit. </P>


I was reading around the web today and found an article on adding percussion to the C-2; it called for disconnecting a couple draw bars and switching the wires one from another; some other things but the author never mentions installing a switch....I think I'd like to keep my C-2 as original as possible. Changing the amp doesn't seem like the way to go along the originality line; how did Hammond change the C-2 to make it a B-3? The only difference is percussion...</P>


Is there a service manual/ how to set up instructions forC -2 in download form on the net?</P>


So does anyone have the diagram for connecting the amp to the wires that go from the ampto the 5 pin outlet box and how to connect the wires from the center top of the upper manual ?</P>
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