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  • M3 percussion issue



    Hi everyone,</P>


    New to the forum and glad I found it. Yesterday I became the proud owner of a 1959 M3. I am the second owner and the organ is minty. Last night I got it home and started and everything is working with one exception, the percussion.</P>


    If I am holding a tone and turn on the percussion I get the 'ping' but no more than the first one when I turn percussion on. Notes that follow do not have percussion, even with a long break in between. Each time I turn the toggle off and back on while holding a note I get the ping, even rapidly.</P>


    Searching this forum,reading a few threads onM3 percussion issues, and reading the manual I found on-lne I think it may be as simple as a very weak tube, the V8 6C4, which isan original 'Hammond' tube in my unit. Out of the 11 tubes 9 are Hammond.</P>


    Here is the manual excerpt</P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">"Immediately the note begins to fade away, giving the characteristic percussion<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">effect. This fading is accomplished as follows: When the percussion switch is<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">"on'', terminal K (normally held at plus 25 volts through anti-spark resistor<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">(R-53) is connected to the solo manual 6th, (8th in M-3) harmonic busbar. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN>When a<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">key is pressed, terminal K is grounded through the key contact and the tone generator<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">filter. This virtually grounds the plate of V8 (connected as a diode),<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">open-circuiting the tube and isolating the control tube grid circuit. The grids<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">then drift from their operating potential of about plus 25 volts to a cut-off potential<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">(about plus 15 volts) at a rate determined by the time required for 031 to<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">discharge through R59 and R60.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The percussion signal is now blocked. No percussion notes can sound until all<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">keys of the solo manual are released and the control grids again rise to plus 25<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">volts. The time of this rise (that is, how quickly the control tubes turn on again<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">after a key is released) is the time required to change C31 to plus 25 volts<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">through R57 and R58."</SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>Based on my experimentation and reading I might conlcude that the V8 never recovers.</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>Completely new to organs like this from a technical perspective, any help would be appreciated.</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>Thanks,</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>Jeremy</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P mce_keep="true"></P>
    1946 Hammond CV & 1953 JR20
    1950 Hammond C2 & 1962 PR40
    1974 Leslie 145
    1979 KORG CX-3 & BOSS RT-20
    KORG microStation, KORG Kaossilator 2, KORG Kaoss Pad 2

    Previous: 1958 M3, 1963 M3, 1965 M162, Leslie 130, Leslie 330, 1979 Lowrey L2

  • #2
    Re: M3 percussion issue



    Welcome to the Hammond/Leslie world. </p>

    Try adjusting the percussion cut off screw on the amp (perc cutoff). Be sure to mark it's current location with a pencil so you can return it to that position if that is not the problem. Next clean all tube sockets and pins with DeOxit.
    </p>
    Hammonds: A; AB; B3; D; E; 6-M3's; 2-A100; T582C.
    Leslies: 3-31H; 21H, 22H, 4-44W; 46W; 25; 47; 45; 125; 50C; 51; 55C; 2-120; 122; 122A; 145; 147; 245; 770; 825; 2-102; 2-103; 300.
    Wicks 2/5 pipe organ; Yamaha upright; Kurzweil Micro Piano & Micro B with M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha DGX520; Wurlitzer 4100 (it came with a Leslie!). Peavey KB100 keyboard amp. Peavey Bass Guitar. Yes, I have A. D. (acquisition disorder) and don't want it cured.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: M3 percussion issue



      Thank you for the guidance.</P>


      I adjusted the pot on the amp and the percussion tones are now present on all notes.</P>


      Looking forward to more conversations here.</P>


      Jeremy</P>
      1946 Hammond CV & 1953 JR20
      1950 Hammond C2 & 1962 PR40
      1974 Leslie 145
      1979 KORG CX-3 & BOSS RT-20
      KORG microStation, KORG Kaossilator 2, KORG Kaoss Pad 2

      Previous: 1958 M3, 1963 M3, 1965 M162, Leslie 130, Leslie 330, 1979 Lowrey L2

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: M3 percussion issue



        You're quite welcome.</p>

        I'm doing a study of M3's on the forum. Would you kindly look at yours and give me the serial number and form # from the serial plate. Also describe the finish on the wood cabinet (mahogany, cherry, oak, etc). Also on the right side of the amp are the letters/numbers AO-29-??. Would you also send that last number and letter if it has one. Should be something like 7J or 7H, etc. Thanks.
        </p>
        Hammonds: A; AB; B3; D; E; 6-M3's; 2-A100; T582C.
        Leslies: 3-31H; 21H, 22H, 4-44W; 46W; 25; 47; 45; 125; 50C; 51; 55C; 2-120; 122; 122A; 145; 147; 245; 770; 825; 2-102; 2-103; 300.
        Wicks 2/5 pipe organ; Yamaha upright; Kurzweil Micro Piano & Micro B with M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha DGX520; Wurlitzer 4100 (it came with a Leslie!). Peavey KB100 keyboard amp. Peavey Bass Guitar. Yes, I have A. D. (acquisition disorder) and don't want it cured.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: M3 percussion issue



          I looked at the study, interesting project you are working on. </P>


          Here is the data from my M3:</P>


          sn - 128383</P>


          Form - A1</P>


          Amp - AO-29-7,and a big letter J off to the side a bit</P>


          As for the wood, the seller described it as mahogany but when I got it home I though it looked more like walnut. This is partly based on some web browsing where the model was listed as available in walnut but not mahogany, but it also said 'custom' options were available. It is faded in many areas and I am not a wood expert so I'm really not sure.</P>


          Hope this helps with your project.</P>


          Jeremy</P>
          1946 Hammond CV & 1953 JR20
          1950 Hammond C2 & 1962 PR40
          1974 Leslie 145
          1979 KORG CX-3 & BOSS RT-20
          KORG microStation, KORG Kaossilator 2, KORG Kaoss Pad 2

          Previous: 1958 M3, 1963 M3, 1965 M162, Leslie 130, Leslie 330, 1979 Lowrey L2

          Comment

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