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  • Northern-Hammond Model D... new organ... Advice?



    I ran across a Northern-Hammond (Canadian) Model D a couple of weeks ago and managed to pick this unit up at a reasonable price. This is my first true console type organ (I have owned M's and L's before) and I am now faced with the task of what I need to do with it.</p>

    I have been looking for schematics on the web but because this is a less popular organ, it seems to be hard to find the full schematic. This is what I have found... but things dont seem to line up... ie: there are only two tubes on this scematic and 4 on the actual preamp... and there is no accounting for the vibrato line preamp... Does anybody have a better schematic or could explain why the one I have is so simple?</p>

    Also, According to this schematic... there are two 'G' connectors of oposite polarity... correct me if I am wrong but could you wire the two 'G' outputs and a ground into a balanced output? I mostly just want to hook it up to my leslie 130 which I have modified to accept a 1/4" input.</p>

    Any other information on this model of organ? I have searched the web, and info on this one is a little sparse.
    </p>

    </p>

    Anyway, Thanks... any help is greatly appreciated,</p>

  • #2
    Re: Northern-Hammond Model D... new organ... Advice?



    There is D-100 schematic at the bottom of the page</p>

    http://www.captain-foldback.com/Hammond_sub/schematics/D100_schem_main.gif</p>

    Cheers
    </p>
    Is:
    Nord C2

    Was:
    Hammond L122
    Leslie 147

    Website:
    L100 modifications: www.gietek.me.uk

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Northern-Hammond Model D... new organ... Advice?



      Welcome to the forum. There is only one other person on here who has a Northern Hammond and that is JohnnyB3. I'm sure he'll be along to help soon as Model E &amp; ME and myself helped him get his going. His was altered to run on 50 hertz. There is a whole long thread full of details about it but I don't remember the title just now. It's been over 4 months ago. Do you know about yours? </p>

      You cannot connect the GG's together for unbalanced output. The GG's are balanced. The way to hook into your 130 is to use one G and ground. Your amp may be different than the standard model. Can you post pictures of it so we can be sure?
      </p>

      The schematic for the BC is similar to the D. If yours has vibrato then the model is DV. The other poster was wrong to recommend the D-100 schematic. It is not even close. Once again, be careful, as the Northern models can be quite different from all the others in the amplification section as well as generator speed at 50 hz instead of 60 unless yours has been converted. They are quite rare and unique.</p>Is yours like this:
      Hammonds: A; AB; B3; D; E; 6-M3's; 2-A100; T582C.
      Leslies: 3-31H; 21H, 22H, 4-44W; 46W; 25; 47; 45; 125; 50C; 51; 55C; 2-120; 122; 122A; 145; 147; 245; 770; 825; 2-102; 2-103; 300.
      Wicks 2/5 pipe organ; Yamaha upright; Kurzweil Micro Piano & Micro B with M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha DGX520; Wurlitzer 4100 (it came with a Leslie!). Peavey KB100 keyboard amp. Peavey Bass Guitar. Yes, I have A. D. (acquisition disorder) and don't want it cured.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Northern-Hammond Model D... new organ... Advice?



        Your best bet is to contact Lars, aka Captain Foldback, at his website, www.captain-foldback.com</p>

        The problem is that it's nearly impossible to find any info about Northern Electric organs, most importantly schematics! But the captain is the best bet as a starting point for finding them. He was able to supply me with schematics and info about my Northern model E, so maybe he can help with your D. (or, like admiral mentioned, a schematic for the BC...if northern made it...). </p>

        According to a colleague of the Captain:</p><blockquote>

        "Northerns had different amps than the US models,
        and their power wiring was slightly different to comply with CSA.
        Northern amps are from Northern Electric's movie theatre systems, and
        have a higher output than the US Hammond-specific amps.
        </p></blockquote>

        </p>

        Neat tid-bit I found: the date of the organ's production should be written in pencil under the pre-set keys. I know thats not easy to access...on my E the preset panel is different and easy to remove so I was able to check easily. I wouldn't bother unless you start to take the organ apart.</p>

        On my E, the electircal wiring was melting and the various rubber insulation covers were turning to goop. If your AC wiring (specifically the 120V wiring that runs from the outlet to the switches, to the motors, and to the preamp). You should check this on your organ and have the AC lines replaced like I did to the E...it can be a dangerous fire or electrocution hazzard if it is in really bad shape. Just check it to be safe!</p>

        </p>

        How do you plan on running this organ? (speaker/B+ supply)
        </p>

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Northern-Hammond Model D... new organ... Advice?



          You guys are verylucky in some ways... it sounds like a rare project to work on one of these!</P>


          (Jonny worked like the devil, on his one, though, from what I read.)</P>
          -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
          -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
          -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
          -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
          -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Northern-Hammond Model D... new organ... Advice?



            Thanks allot, I went into this project assuming that the Northern-Hammond was the same as a Hammond but made in canada... I am always up for a challenge though.</p>

            </p>

            The Wireing is really quite good in my organ, It has been well maintained and appears to have had some restoration years ago... I bought this organ without playing/hearing it because the church I bought it from did not have a tonecabinet suitable for the organ. I did a visual inspection of the electronics, fired up the motors, tested the action... but I have yet to hear it. I am more worried about the TG wires than the mains... an organ this old will almost definatly have a few dead harmonics. I will post some pictures of the preamp just in case someone see's something I have missed.</p>

            I might just reverse engineer the preamp and draw my own schematics... it looks like a very simple one..</p>

            </p>

            For the B+ i am building a simple 240V power supply using a high current 120V/60V transormer with the primary and secondary switched... this will be fine as I assume that because it is only the plate voltage, that it will not draw more than 40 or 50mA. As for the speaker, I am using a Leslie 130 that I have modified to accept a 1/4 inch input (and an XLR to control the speed).</p>

            </p>

            Thanks allot for the replies, I should have joined this forum years ago :)
            </p>

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Northern-Hammond Model D... new organ... Advice?



              Sounds like you've got it covered.
              </p>

              You'd be surprised about the minimal problems that come up (haha...not to jinx your project) with these instruments, relative to their age. Granted, the old cloth wire shields do stiffen up by this decade however, and they are not malleable at all (I dare not play around with the preset panel on my E). Since the generator wires are such low current, it's ok to have some shielding crack in spots. Hopefully you'll get lucky and have no dead tones.
              </p>


              You need to play these older organs through a real cabinet to truly hear what they're capable of. - not that the leslie won't be cool (130's are alright), but the bass capabilities of these organs are nuts and the old cabinets with field coil type speakers and huge solid wood construction...well...they just make these organs sing. D-20, PR-40, tallboy leslies (http://captain-foldback.com/Leslie_sub/tallboy.htm)... Easier said than done I know ;) but its nice to dream.

              Where are you located / where did this organ live?
              </p>

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Northern-Hammond Model D... new organ... Advice?



                As promised... Pictures of the preamp...let me know if it is familiar... </p>

                I am not sure, but it looks allot like the CV/BV preamp to me...
                </p>

                also, in the last picture, there is a resistor as part of the line box (not sure of the correct name)... it appears to have burnt up... would anyone be able to explain to me what that resistor is for?
                </p>

                </p>

                </p>

                </p>

                </p>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Northern-Hammond Model D... new organ... Advice?

                  It looks like the amp for the schematic I posted. Since it has vibrato on the amp the model is DV (vibrato was added which is why the serial plate only has D). I guess you noticed your B+ dc voltage needs to be around 200 volts. If you hook it up to a Hammond tone cabinet or Leslie models 21H, 31H, 22H, 122, they will furnish the B+ but you'll need to connect the 6 pin cable wire to the amp since there is no wire on that terminal. Looks like a lot of wiring upgrades to it. The burned area around the resistor looks like AC arcing. I've seen that before. From what I've seen so far in your pictures, the organ looks to be fairly standard.
                  Hammonds: A; AB; B3; D; E; 6-M3's; 2-A100; T582C.
                  Leslies: 3-31H; 21H, 22H, 4-44W; 46W; 25; 47; 45; 125; 50C; 51; 55C; 2-120; 122; 122A; 145; 147; 245; 770; 825; 2-102; 2-103; 300.
                  Wicks 2/5 pipe organ; Yamaha upright; Kurzweil Micro Piano & Micro B with M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha DGX520; Wurlitzer 4100 (it came with a Leslie!). Peavey KB100 keyboard amp. Peavey Bass Guitar. Yes, I have A. D. (acquisition disorder) and don't want it cured.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Northern-Hammond Model D... new organ... Advice?

                    Admiral, is it suspect that there is nothing connected at the B+ terminal? Could this organ already have been modified to supply itself with the necessary voltage?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Northern-Hammond Model D... new organ... Advice?

                      It is unusual there is not a wire on it but that is where the B+ is supplied to work the amp. I don't see a problem so far. The owner knows to build a power supply as per his post. I have a power supply that I built for my Model E so the organ doesn't require tone cabinets. That is a standard preamp as observed from the images.
                      Hammonds: A; AB; B3; D; E; 6-M3's; 2-A100; T582C.
                      Leslies: 3-31H; 21H, 22H, 4-44W; 46W; 25; 47; 45; 125; 50C; 51; 55C; 2-120; 122; 122A; 145; 147; 245; 770; 825; 2-102; 2-103; 300.
                      Wicks 2/5 pipe organ; Yamaha upright; Kurzweil Micro Piano & Micro B with M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha DGX520; Wurlitzer 4100 (it came with a Leslie!). Peavey KB100 keyboard amp. Peavey Bass Guitar. Yes, I have A. D. (acquisition disorder) and don't want it cured.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Northern-Hammond Model D... new organ... Advice?

                        Also, from the last picture it appears that the organ was equipped with a Hammond main-echo switch and terminal board, but the wires to the echo cabinet cable seem to be cut off. I wonder if the M-E-E switch is still in place? If it was a Hammond switch it would have been up on the back rail next to the Chorus drawbar.
                        1937 Model E
                        PR-40 w/Accutronic Reverberation
                        Leslie 31-H
                        Schulmerich ChimeATron

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Northern-Hammond Model D... new organ... Advice?



                          It does have the M-E-E switch still in place by the chorus. When I got the organ, there was a tone cabinet cable that was wired into the organ but only to the B+ and the echo was already cut. I assume that at some point they were using the former echo cabinet just to supply the plate voltage (B+) to the organ.</p>

                          I only have a single leslie speaker, so I will probably disconnect the M-E-E switch completely (but leave it in place). I would like to connect a XLR output as G-Gnd-G balanced output that I could later run thought a -30dB pad. When I do all of this, I belive I can do away with the entire terminal board. In that case: the power would be supplied directly to the motors/preamp... do you know what the high power resistor (the burnt one) is for?</p>

                          I was wondering why this organ had a chours and vibrato... so this organ would be electronicaly more like a CV and a D put together?
                          </p>

                          Here is a picture of the top of the organ, you can see the hammond M-E-E switch by the chours drawbar. (sorry, its big and you might need to scroll)
                          </p>

                          </p>


                          </p>

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Northern-Hammond Model D... new organ... Advice?



                            I can't tell you the meaning of that resistor, you'd have to trace the wires to be certain where they're going and what the resistor's purpose is. Personally I would completely re-build that power terminal board...replace those cloth covered wires. </p>

                            All the rubber wires look new (blue, red, gray) and don't have to be replaced, but i'd replace all that cloth stuff. Try to bend those wires and they'll will most likely fall apart in your hand. You can see that all the newer wires solder to the lower portion of each terminal.
                            </p>

                            When you hear about older hammonds being the cause of fire, its almost certainly due to AC wiring of this condition.
                            </p>

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Northern-Hammond Model D... new organ... Advice?



                              [quote user="soundengg"] do you know what the high power resistor (the burnt one) is for? [/quote]</P>


                              That is the resistor is series with the Start motor. When the Run switch is Off, the resistor is shorted out by contacts in theRun switch, so the Start motor develops full torque. When the Run switch is On, the resistor is inserted in series with the Start motor, slowing it down slightly so the Run motor can pull into synchronism.</P>


                              [quote user="soundengg"]I was wondering why this organ had a chours and vibrato... so this organ would be electronicaly more like a CV and a D put together? [/quote]</P>


                              The original model C just had one tone generator and a Tremulant. The model D had both a Chorus generator and Tremulant. (The equivalent 4-legged models were the AB and BC.) Model Cs that were retrofitted with the Vibrato kit when it came out were designated CV, and Model Ds that were retrofitted with the Vibrato kit were designated DV. No organs with both Chorus generator and Vibrato ever left the factory, they were all field retrofitted. The reason was that Hammond felt the Chorus generator (which added a lot of cost) was no longer necessary because the Vibrato Chorus function saved the same purpose. A lot of us disagree with that and think the DV (and its 4-legged equivalent, the BCV) were the best of both worlds.</P>
                              1937 Model E
                              PR-40 w/Accutronic Reverberation
                              Leslie 31-H
                              Schulmerich ChimeATron

                              Comment

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