Hammond L133 - B note sounds weak on every octave of including bass pedal

[Guest]

Hello to all,</p>

</p>

I inherited a great Hammond L133 that hadn't been played for many years. I have no experience with organs in my life but I love organs and always wanted one.</p>

First thing I did was replace the power cord and then plugged it in to see if it actually produced a sound. In fact it did, but some sounds were painful to listen to.</p>

It definitely sounds like oiling would do it some good. I'm not sure where the scratchy abrasive hissis coming from (not from speakers), but it comes and goes. Sounds to me like it has something to do with the spinning shaft. Does anyone have experience with this?</p>

Secondly, The B note of both manuals sounds weaker than all other notes. it still produces a note but not a full rounded sound like every other note. I think it missing the frequencies of some draw-bars. Can someone point me in the right direction? I would really appreciate any help.</p>

[gientke]

Re: Hammond L133 - B note sounds weak on every octave of including bass pedal



Hi,
</p>

1. The hiss may be coming from tone generator. Just oil it well, wait for 2 weeks (yes, that long...) and see if it goes. That is the very first thing you should do.
</p>

2. I have some notes quieter than others on my L122 but they are single notes and they vary for different drawbars. They are high pitch notes and they are unnoticeable. I wish I could fix that but if it requirtes a lot of dangerous work to do, I'll pass. t sounds to me like bad capacitor in tone generator or dirty contacts on bus bar. There are few people on the forum who surely know what to do [:)]</p>

Cheers</p>

Kris
</p>

[TheAdmiral]

Re: Hammond L133 - B note sounds weak on every octave of including bass pedal

Use ONLY Hammond specific oil.

[Guest]

Re: Hammond L133 - B note sounds weak on every octave of including bass pedal



I'll definitely try your suggestions and post again to let you know what happens.</p>

Thx so much.</p>

[Brendon Wright]

Re: Hammond L133 - B note sounds weak on every octave of including bass pedal



Hi Rod!</P>


Are the B notes that are missing the actualkeys themselves, or certain tones on certain drawbars?</P>


There are a lot of things we can tackle, but oiling this baby is the very first issue before anything else!</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>


Interestingly, my tech didn't supply me with Hammond oil but something else he swore by, everythings been okay so far for eight months.</P>


In Montreal Hammond oil shouldn't be too hard to find, If you do have trouble let us know.</P>


Cheers!</P>


-Brendon</P>

[Guest]

Re: Hammond L133 - B note sounds weak on every octave of including bass pedal



Hey there,</p>

Sorry, I'll clarify, the keys are all there physically, but when I press on any B key on the upper, lower manual or the B bass pedal, it seems as though maybe not all the drawbars are affecting that particular note.</p>

For example, if I pull all the drawbars to max level, and run up and down a chromatic scale, it sounds as though some frequencies are absent when I hit a natural B key.</p>

I also have to add that I started the organ and did all this testing in a span of 5 - 10 minutes. I thought that I should oil it first before going on any further.</p>

BTW Brendon, can you recommend anyone in Montreal for Hammond oil?</p>

</p>

Thanks again</p>

Rod</p>

[redoctoberff]

Re: Hammond L133 - B note sounds weak on every octave of including bass pedal



I think what Brendon was getting at was a clarification between a couple common issues. The first I think is more likely. The Hammond tone generator recycles tones to make up the harmonics for each note (where each note is a number of harmonics supplied individually by drawbars)--for example, a middle C with I think the first (16', brown) and third (8', white) drawbar out is comprised of two harmonics: the suboctave (16') tone, which is of course one octave below the normal C tone, and the the middle C tone (fundamental) itself. So if you play the C an octave below middle C, now what WAS the 16' drawbar on the first key is now the 8'--its the same pitch/tone and comes from the same tonewheel on the generator, but has a different place in respect to the other harmonics that make up that particular "note" or key. Hope this makes sense--essentially the whole keyboard of 44 keys x 9 possible harmonics is made up by the...80? or so tones in the generator. (Consoles of course have 91 tones and 5 dummy tonewheels for a total of 96.) </p>

You might have known this already, but it's a good starting point anyway. What it means is that when you have a missing frequency on the generator--i.e. a broken connection between the pickup for that tonewheel, a stuck tonewheel, etc--it shows up in numerous places, since that tone is being recycled. The best way to test for this is to pull out each drawbar one at a time and test every key chromatically up the keyboard. If it's this first problem, you'll find a different note than B missing on some drawbars. This is generally pretty easy to fix.

The second possible issue and I think what Brendon was getting at is if the holes don't appear elsewhere on the keyboard, meaning its isolated either to a certain drawbar or a certain key or set of keys (which seems unlikely since you say its happening with the bass pedal too). Actually, the bass pedal bit throws me off some, since I don't believe the bass pedal tones are used anywhere else in the manuals.

Well, that might have been an entire waste of text, but its useful if the problem ever occurs elsewhere.</p>

Here's a link to Hammond oil if you're okay with eBaying it, that's where I got mine (different seller though). It will actually solve about 90% of potential problems with your Hammond, and it can only be good for it as long as you don't overdo the oiling.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Genuine-HAMMOND-Organ-Tone-Generator-Oil-4oz-8yr-supply_W0QQitemZ180369876014QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item29fee1e42e&amp;_trksid=p3 286.c0.m14&amp;_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72% 3A1215|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50


</p>

[Brendon Wright]

Re: Hammond L133 - B note sounds weak on every octave of including bass pedal



Wow! </P>


Great explanation Red!</P>


When we isolate it, it could even come down to dirty bussbars, but the likelihood of all B's getting crusty is unlikely!</P>


However, I've contacted FunkyD from Montreal who's aBandplaying Hammond expert from your town. He should be here at some stage and fill you in on the oil situation in Montreal.</P>


Cheers!</P>


-Brendon</P>

[Guest]

Re: Hammond L133 - B note sounds weak on every octave of including bass pedal

<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; font-size: medium; "><div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); padding-top: 8px; padding-right: 8px; padding-bottom: 8px; padding-left: 8px; ">Amazing! Thanks so much to all of you for all your help.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); padding-top: 8px; padding-right: 8px; padding-bottom: 8px; padding-left: 8px; ">As soon as I get some oil, I'll get going on this and share my results.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); padding-top: 8px; padding-right: 8px; padding-bottom: 8px; padding-left: 8px; ">Thanks again</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); padding-top: 8px; padding-right: 8px; padding-bottom: 8px; padding-left: 8px; ">Rod</div></span>

[Guest]

Re: Hammond L133 - B note sounds weak on every octave of including bass pedal



Hello everyone,</p>

</p>

Just want to give an update of actions and results so far.</p>

</p>

I ordered Hammond Oil from Captain Foldback ( excellent service BTW ), oiled it through funnels as well as motor about three times now and it's been a good 2 months since. I removed the power amp, cleaned the original tubes, used DeOxit on all contacts including pins of the tubes.</p>

</p>

So far there is less noise/rattle/buzz coming from the tone wheel, but not completely gone. and now the reverb is working. </p>

The B notes are sounding better. </p>

Frequencies from some of the drawbars are absent on some of the keys. I am going to use the troubleshooting instructions from the L100 service manual and report again.</p>

I isolated the tone wheel that made noise oiled it and it seems better. Now occasionally another tone wheel starts to buzz or rattle, so I find it by stopping wheels with my hand (gloves of coarse). I will post again to see if anyone can tell me what is the best way to handle a noisy tone wheel.</p>

Thanks to all for your help</p>

Rod</p>

[HarryA122/45]

Re: Hammond L133 - B note sounds weak on every octave of including bass pedal



I'm not sure how the bass pedals on an L133 get their tones, but I recently bought an A-122 in which on A# I noticed that I would miss certain harmonics when playing up a scale chromatically from bottom to top. Individually I tried every note one drawbar at a time and isolated the problem to frequency #71. My service manual had a chart of frequeny numbers for each drawbar and every key so this was fairly easy to trace down. It also listed the frequencies used by the two pedal drawbards on the A-122. By isolating the particular tone I was able to find the network on top of the generator which labeled each frequency. I thought maybe there might be a cold solder joint on one of the connections so I heated up each of the solder joints where the coil and capacitor are located and also the terminal strip at the rear of the generator for this particular frequency. Problem solved! Not sure if this will help or not. Good luck. It is amazing how just ONE missing frequency will be noticeable, especially when playing slower scales or melodies. </P>


If you need help with a frequency number, I have the chart for the A-122 but don't know if it would match up with the generator on your model.</P>