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Introductions, Gratitude, Aid for the Admiralty, and a very strange question about an M3.

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  • Introductions, Gratitude, Aid for the Admiralty, and a very strange question about an M3.



    </p>

    </p>

    As it would appear that I will likely be spending time here, I thought itwould be a good idea to start things off properly. I am a new owner of a Hammond M3 in Blonde (that is her in the photograph). This is myfirst tone wheel organ. My father is an organ player (he has two B3s,an A100, and a few assorted Leslies), so I am not a total newbie. I've been using NI's B4 in place of a proper tone wheel organ while keeping my eyes open for an M3 or A100 to turn up locally at a reasonable price. And boy did the wait pay off. The listing read, "free organ",with a blurry photo. I was expecting the worst, so I was pleasantly surprised when I saw her it in person. Very well taken care of, well oiled, new(er) tubes, hardly any cobwebs inside. And of course the rare blond finish in amazing condition, ha, pretty snazzy!

    And here is where the gratitude comes in: thanks to all of you guys I knew exactly what to look for, how to lock down the generator, heck I even knew what size the nut would be. On top of that, I knew exactly how to solve all of my initial problems; scratchy corroded draw bars,dirty tube sockets, I even knew right where to find the broken wires onthe tone generator to get back the few tones I was missing! Because of you guys, I was able to dial in the cut off for the percussion and the pedals. Ah yes, and I knew right where to find the cover to remove for turning up the preamp for bit of over drive. I knew all about Howard Restor-A-Finish and Feed-N-Wax for bringing the finish back up to par!And I knew what type of wire was rated high enough and came in black to replace the power cord (also that switching polarity would fix a 60hz hum). So, a huge thank you everyone, you have been extremely helpful. It should be fairly obvious that I've gone back and read pretty much everything you all have posted on the M3, so I feel as if I already knowsome of you, however indirectly.

    Now to give back a little something something, and if I read his post right I think this will indeed be very helpful to the Admiral, given that my organ seems to be much much closer to the switch over than anyone else's so far.

    Serial Number: 109202
    Model: M3
    Form: A3 (blond with round legs)
    Preamp: AO-29-1H
    Speaker: AO-21055-2 SH-3 (field coil)

    And finally, a problem that I could not find covered here:

    If I play any note other than C on the pedals and let go; the C on the C pedal, the first draw bar tone for the lowest C on the lower manual,and the first draw bar tone for the lowest C on the upper manual will all have a strange discordant rumble over the fundamental note (at a 10% greater volume than the note). AND, If I then play a C on thepedals and let go; all of the aforementioned C tones will play as normally expected ... until I play a pedal note other than C.

    SO, I will leave you with that challenge, which should make for some interesting posts.

    Thanks again,

    Whisker</p>

  • #2
    Re: Introductions, Gratitude, Aid for the Admiralty, and a very strange question about an M3.



    Hey, welcome to the forum! First of all let me say congratulations on the free M3 - that's a real find with it being the rare blond finish. And ain't it pretty?!? I think theblond finish makes all the other M3s look pretty boring by comparison. (well except for ebony... and cherry is really nice too when you see one in good condition... LOL).</P>


    Let me also say, thank you for taking the trouble tosearch through the archived posts. It always amazes me how many people post up on here, asking very basic questions that have been covered dozens of times. (how hard is it to type "M3 'won't start'" into the search engine after all?) For my part I'm more than happy to help people, both out of a love for Hammonds and sort of in homage to the guys who were very generous with advice when I was just starting out. So you're approaching this in just the right spirit: learn as much as you can first and then jump in!</P>


    So on that note: based on your description, I *think* you're having the exact problem I had on my first M3. Listen carefully to the "strange discordant rumble" that you hear over low C on the lower manual: is it perchance the last pedal note played, sort of overlaid over the "C"? If so (or even if not LOL), I think you may have a wiring problem. On mine the problem was that the ground for the pedal signals was connected at the wrong point - it was actually attached directly to the TG terminal for tone #25 (the low C.) What had happened was, at some point in the organ's history it had been moved without the TG locked down, so it had swung around and broken a couple wires loose at the TG. Then somebody had apparently reconnected the pedal ground wire just based on where it seemed to reach best, rather than by consulting a wiring diagram - the correct ground point is in fact right near tone #25.</P>


    Here's a link to the wiring diagram:</P>


    http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/wirin...&amp;model=M3e</P>


    Anyway good luck with it... boy that blond finish sure is sweet!</P>


    td</P>
    <P mce_keep="true"></P>
    Nobody loves me but my mother,
    And she could be jivin' too...

    --BB King

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Introductions, Gratitude, Aid for the Admiralty, and a very strange question about an M3.




      Welcome indeed! </p>


      I think you're the most perfect newbie on here that I've observed. [Y] Congratulations on doing your homework and it shows in your payoff. That makes us beam [:D] when someone fixes a problem or heads one off from our collective information contributions. As TD said we appreciate someone who thoroughly reads the previous threads. </p>


      Thanks again for the model information. I'll add it to the thread. I don't have an answer to your pedal problem just now but will give it some thought. Most of my pedal problems have come from putting the organ on too thick of carpet and the pedal note sticks. As you know we have a great gang of folks on here and we'll solve it sooner or later and add another laurel to our general 'tech' book.</p>


      You have one of the very last Field Coil speaker/amp models! </p>


      That's close. </p>

      <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="content-type">
      <title></title>

      http://organforum.com/forums/thread/73808.aspx


      </p>


      </p>
      Hammonds: A; AB; B3; D; E; 6-M3's; 2-A100; T582C.
      Leslies: 3-31H; 21H, 22H, 4-44W; 46W; 25; 47; 45; 125; 50C; 51; 55C; 2-120; 122; 122A; 145; 147; 245; 770; 825; 2-102; 2-103; 300.
      Wicks 2/5 pipe organ; Yamaha upright; Kurzweil Micro Piano & Micro B with M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha DGX520; Wurlitzer 4100 (it came with a Leslie!). Peavey KB100 keyboard amp. Peavey Bass Guitar. Yes, I have A. D. (acquisition disorder) and don't want it cured.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Introductions, Gratitude, Aid for the Admiralty, and a very strange question about an M3.

        [quote user="TheAdmiral"]


        I think you're the most perfect newbie on here that I've observed. [Y] Congratulations on doing your homework and it shows in your payoff. </P>


        [/quote]</P>


        Yes... &lt;DarthVader&gt;"the Force is strong in this one..."&lt;/DarthVader&gt; LOL</P>


        BTW good point re: the pedal/carpet factor... always best to look for the simplest answer first, before you start tearing into things. Thanks for the reminder - I should make a sign that just says, "Occam's Razor" and tack it up on my garage wall!</P>


        cheers,</P>


        scott</P>
        Nobody loves me but my mother,
        And she could be jivin' too...

        --BB King

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Introductions, Gratitude, Aid for the Admiralty, and a very strange question about an M3.

          <div>Re TD:</div><div></div><div>I've only ever seen the walnut and cherry finishes up close in person, so the blonde looked a bit alien, hah. Now that I'm used to it, I agree though - it is a very pretty finish.</div><div></div><div>As for the last pedal voice being overlayed the C on the pedal board and each manual ... maybe. It is such a muddy sound that it is rather hard to pull any tonal informaiton from it. I am fairly certain that the C tone is in there, but even that is a gut feeling. In short - when it is muddy, it's total garbage. As per your wiring idea - the very first line that leaves the pedal bundle on it's way across the tone generator was broken off. I did solder it back to where I thought it came from (fairly obvious due to the broken off bit of wire still in place). Do note, however, that the problem was present before resoldering. What I can not say for certain, though, is if pressing the C pedal would 'fix' the mud before I resoldered that wire - as I only noticed this after having attached it. I do not remember there ever being a time before connecting that wire when any of those lowest Cs didn't have mud though - so it is very likely that attaching that wire where I did enabled this strange fix situation. I'll include a photo with the wire outlined with pure green. Does this happen to be the ground line?</div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Re Admiral:</div><div></div><div>I was pretty pleased that I just happen to have found an organ that is so close to the change over. I like to be prepared before getting in over my head. This isespeciallytrue when dealing with high voltages, ha! I had several days to do research while I waited for the pick up day to come around. The problems I was able to fix with what I picked up here in that time is only a small sampling of how much I've already learned about all the possible gremlins that can pop up.</div><div></div><div>Once I get her back up to 100% I'd like to get a solid line out system set up. Should be fun.</div><div></div><div>As for the carpet - it is the thin stuff, barely any padding under it to be honest. So no mechanical interference with the pedals on that count anyway.</div><div></div>

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Introductions, Gratitude, Aid for the Admiralty, and a very strange question about an M3.



            Hmm... ok, I just looked at my M3 to compare. It's a little different since mine is very early (1955). But I think the problem is not the wire you resoldered (marked in green).That's not the ground, but rather the connection to tone #49 (which is a "C", I think maybe middle "C" but I'm not certain.) On mine, the pedal ground is actually the second wire coming out of the bundle, i.e. the second cloth-insulated wire from left in your picture; or the third black wire from the left if you alsocount the rubber-insulated wire. </P>


            That second cloth-insulated wire should go to a ground point on the TG chassis -- on mine there's actually a little tab arching over that first capacitor that runs parallel to the wiring bundle, on the front. The tab connects to chassis ground via a screw in the little oblong tray. (i hope this is makingsense.) At any rate, on mine that second cloth-insulated wire is connected to the metal tab which is in turn grounded to the chassis - and there's also a white wire connected at the same point. I can't quite tell from your picture whether you have a tab like that over the lengthwise capacitor, but I can see there's a white wire coming up from underneath. Ifthat white wiregoes to a metal tab that's connected to chassis ground, I think what you might need to do is disconnect that second black cloth wire from the terminal on top of the TG, and reconnect it to the tab where the white wire terminates. You could probably test with a jumper wire and alligator clips first, before you start desoldering/soldering.</P>


            Anyway good luck-</P>


            td</P>
            Nobody loves me but my mother,
            And she could be jivin' too...

            --BB King

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Introductions, Gratitude, Aid for the Admiralty, and a very strange question about an M3.



              Re TD:</p>

              I took a look and found the wire and the tab that sneaks up from behind that capacitor. Taking a closer look at the wire, I noticed that it did indeed look like a newer solder joint. I applied a bit of heat, it popped right off (it wasn't done through hole, like all of the original work). So I clamped it down to thechassis ground tab, started her up and tested the pedals new effect on the low Cs. The strange behavior is gone!</p>

              I can see why someone would solder it where they did - looking at the rest of em, it would seem to go there (till you count 13 lines in that bundle).</p>

              I'll get that soldered up properly tomorrow and post an updated photo with the change and a more clear view of that grounding tab.</p>

              Thanks for the lead!</p>

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Introductions, Gratitude, Aid for the Admiralty, and a very strange question about an M3.



                </p>

                Red is where it was, green is where I moved it to. Everything seems in order with the low Cs now.</p>

                </p>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Introductions, Gratitude, Aid for the Admiralty, and a very strange question about an M3.

                  You're officially a tech now! [:S] Learning about Hammonds and Leslies via repairs is part of the fun in owning and caring for them. Now you've got to find a Leslie or two to go with it! You won't believe how good it will sound then.
                  Hammonds: A; AB; B3; D; E; 6-M3's; 2-A100; T582C.
                  Leslies: 3-31H; 21H, 22H, 4-44W; 46W; 25; 47; 45; 125; 50C; 51; 55C; 2-120; 122; 122A; 145; 147; 245; 770; 825; 2-102; 2-103; 300.
                  Wicks 2/5 pipe organ; Yamaha upright; Kurzweil Micro Piano & Micro B with M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha DGX520; Wurlitzer 4100 (it came with a Leslie!). Peavey KB100 keyboard amp. Peavey Bass Guitar. Yes, I have A. D. (acquisition disorder) and don't want it cured.

                  Comment

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