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**tonewheel1966** · 08-03-2009, 01:13 AM

Re: Restoring a C3..

Hi Chris

I have just finished a full guts out C3 restoration (see my gallery photos).

Typical chop cases can be seen on the Retrokeys website.

I'm in a bit of a rush to go out now but if you need any advice get back to me.

Is this the C3 from Essex that was on ebay a couple of weeks back? and does the generator have the wax or mylar caps on it?

Cheers

Dave

**TheAdmiral** · 08-03-2009, 06:05 AM

Re: Restoring a C3..

[quote user="ChrisB"]<div></div>
<div>Should I just go for putting it back together for now or try and restore as I go?
</div><div>Is there anything I
absolutely should do,or should not do, during the
reassembly / restoration?</div>
<div>Should I
dismantle the manuals to check for damage by foam and attempt to remove the
foam? (the back of the manuals have some holes,
but no rivets, soI think it's a foam version rather than
felted...)</div>
<div>I might build this
into a 'chop' case instead of the standard case to make it easier to gig with-
does anyone have any drawings or measurements for a light weight chop
case?</div>
<div></div>
<div>
</div>



[/quote]

Welcome to the forum. There are plenty of experienced people on here to help you. We all bring slightly different perspectives and that is good. You have obviously been reading the forum to know about the foam problem. Why was it taken apart already? We appreciate people to do their homework by thoroughly reading the forum first as many of the questions have been answered in some fashion. With it disassembled it is the perfect time for restoration that should make it last for another 50-60 years when done properly. The degree of foam problem takes some judgment but it's your best time to look for it. If it is not bad then you may be able to remove it without damaging the wiring or just leave it alone. The problem is you won't know how much damaged is done to the wiring without being able to play it. You probably could run it on the bench and test for sound by using headphones or a meter. If it is bad then there are some on here who can help you better than I. Be sure to take your time, work carefully and most things will work out OK. As far as building a new cabinet, you can copy the layout of the C3 using 3/4 inch plywood. It's really pretty simple just lots of work but fun and a great feeling of achievement when it's all over and you can brag about it! Good luck.

**Guest** · 08-03-2009, 06:14 AM

Re: Restoring a C3..

Hi Dave

Thanks for the reply - I had a look at your photos and thats a very nice job!


Yes, its the C3 from Essex - although I didn't get it directly from there it is the same organ. I think the generator has the wax caps (the orangy / brown coloured ones?) so probably worth changing these for the mylar caps whilst I've got the generator out?


And I will be getting back to you for more advice.... I'm currently building up the courage to take off the back of the manuals and see what, if any, foam damage there is - but I don't want to cause any damage if there isn't any already!

Thanks

Chris

**Guest** · 08-03-2009, 06:18 AM

Re: Restoring a C3..

Hi Admiral 

Thanks for your input too - I think you're right - now's the time to do it. As far as I know, the organ was dismantled so that it could be restored - I will try and find out if there were any specific problems with it too.

Thanks

Chris

**tonewheel1966** · 08-03-2009, 12:22 PM

Re: Restoring a C3..

Hi Chris

I bought my Hammond from the same guy, Mark in November last year only mine was an RT3. I reduced the cabinet while I had the guts out. The recap of the generator is essential if you want the trademark sound and the actual recap is easy. The important thing is the recalibration. I copied the calibration of a mylar capped sixties Hammond so I got the exact blue print of a factory calibrated Hammond. You need a special meter to do this. I had one built especially for the job.

I also replaced the common to fail caps in the amp as well.

Where are you located? I am in Worthing on the south coast UK.

Cheers

Dave

**Hammond101** · 08-03-2009, 12:55 PM

Re: Restoring a C3..

Chis,

I think you will find your manuals are just fine with no foam. I had a 1963 A100 with wax caps and no foam. It still palys great today although owned by another forum member (Riverside).

'64-'65 seemed to be the years the ugly stuff started creeping in.

Best of luck,

H101

**Guest** · 08-03-2009, 01:21 PM

Re: Restoring a C3..

Hi


I've had some input from Kon Ziss to look through the slit on the manuals with a torch to see if there's foam or felt in there.... I think it might be foam because there aren't any rivets on the outside, but I'm still hopeful - it's probably a '63 and has wax caps so I might be lucky.... I was interested to hear of your re-calibration - what does that involve?

Kon has also given me a long list of capacitors and other components to replace.... 

I'm up near High Wycombe in Bucks

Thanks

Chris

**tonewheel1966** · 08-04-2009, 05:03 AM

Re: Restoring a C3..

Hi Chris

Kon built me an analogue millivolt peak to peak meter (mVpp) and being analogue it has a guage with a needle. Onceyou have recapped the out put levels are usually a bit un-even so by connecting the mVpp meter to ground and a certain terminal lug on the generator you adjust the corresponding magnetic rod to change the out put of that particular tone. Some people like the "mellow" sound of the wax caps that have drifted off spec, but if you and your son want the trademark sound heard on the records from the sixties and seventies you definately need to recap and recalibrate. Kon is the world's leading authority on this subject after his years of research. He does get attacked by the "well known Hammond companies" but I regard him as a good friend following all the advice and correspondance I have had with him. If you are a member of the Hammondzone forum where Kon resides you can see the graphs of the output curves before and after recapping. Kon's list of components to replace is also spot on and will return the timbre of your organ to the "just left the factory" sound

Cheers

Dave.

**Guest** · 08-04-2009, 06:12 AM

Re: Restoring a C3..

Hi Dave

Thanks for the info. I think I'm a little way away from needing this at the moment but once I've got the manuals sorted out, and the components replaced, and the keys and drawbars all back together I will get some more information from you on recalibrating the C3 - and the details of that meter. We're definitely after the 70's sound so a recap and recalibration is in order. 

I'll keep you posted as to progress.... I'm going to try and take photos as I go..... 

Kon also gave the tiitles of a couple of books: "Hammond B3 Disassembly & Restoration Manual for
Non-technicians" by Wayne E Prue
(http://www.b3sforsale.com/The_manual.html) and "Hammond B3
and Leslie 122/147. Easy improvement and restoration tips for non technicians"
by Patrice Gagne (http://www.hammondb3andleslietips.com/hammondb3andlesliebook.htm). Have you (or anyone else on the forum) any comments etc. on either of these?

Thanks again for the help so far!

Chris

**redoctoberff** · 08-04-2009, 08:43 AM

Re: Restoring a C3..

The "B3 and Leslie tips" e-book was discussed to some extent on this thread: http://organforum.com/forums/thread/87604.aspx

Could you post Kon's list of components somewhere/does he give the list of capacitor values needed for a TG recapping? I remember someone saying you could buy all the capacitors for about $8, rather than the $75 or so for a Goff kit--which I've heard doesn't have instructions as far as which capacitor goes where.

**tonewheel1966** · 08-05-2009, 12:21 AM

Re: Restoring a C3..

I have the B3 and Leslie tips book which is really very good BUT it was actually Kon's research that is used in the section on generator recapping etc so you won't really gain anymore info than the info Kon has given you in his thread.

I am also wondering if your manuals are actually the originals there.I am sure that the wax capped models were all foam free. On my wax cap foam free model the serial number is also etched on the generator and matching transformer cover.

Cheers

Dave

**Guest** · 08-05-2009, 12:28 AM

Re: Restoring a C3..

Please see below the very helpful information from Kon Zissis on what components to replace on this restoration - my thanks for Kon for all this information and also his permission to cross post this information here:



If you want the tone wheel generator ( TG ) to sound close to what it did when
it was new, then you will need to remove the aged wax paper capacitors that
filter the TG notes 49 to 91 and to then replace these with new capacitors in
order to approximate the original output levels of the TG notes 49 to 91 and
thus restore the normal tonal balance of the organ sound.

Because the wax
paper capacitors have absorbed moisture and oil over the years , they have
gradually drifted off from their original micro farad ( mfd or uf ) values and
this has caused the output levels of the TG notes 49 to 91 to be significantly
lower than what they were when the organ was new and this results in a mellower
or darker sound.

The TG notes 49 to 54 have the larger sized wax paper
capacitors labeled as being 0.250 mfd, but because this mfd value is no longer
readily available you can make up an approximately similar mfd value by
combining a 0.220 mfd ( 220 nf) capacitor in parallel with a 0.033 mfd ( 33 nf)
capacitor thus making up the combined value of 0.253 mfd ( 253 nf () which is
approximately close to the value needed by the filter coils for the TG notes 49
to 54.

The TG notes 55 to 91 have the smaller sized 0.105 mfd wax paper
capacitors , but because the 0.105 mfd value is no longer readily available ,
you can simply use 0.1 mfd ( 100 nf ) capacitors for the TG notes 55 to
91.

Even though the new capacitors have not been individually matched to
the TG notes 49 to 91 , they are very close to the exact mfd value needed by
each individual filter coil so therefore the organ will sound much closer to how
it should sound with the factory intended sound compared to the way that it
currently sounds with the aged wax paper capacitors.

Because the TG is
not an audiophile high fidelity device , you do not need to use expensive
audiophile grade capacitors for it, instead you can simply use the cheaply and
readily available polyester green cap capacitors or the small square shaped MKT
metalized polyester capacitors like I did to recap the filter coils of the TG
notes 49 to 91.

Of course if you have already played your C3 and you
really love the way that it sounds with the aged wax paper capacitors then you
do not really need to recap the TG with new capacitors. Some people do prefer
the mellower or darker sound produced by the pre 1964 organs that have the aged
wax paper capacitors on them.

I also recommend that you replace the aged
wax paper capacitors from the vibrato line box with new green cap polyester
capacitors or with MKT metalized polyester capacitors that are of the same mfd
value as the values printed on the wax paper capacitors .
The required
capacitor mfd values for the vibrato linwe box are as follows:
One 0.01 mfd (
10 nf )capacitor ,
seventeen 0.0056 mfd ( 5.6 nf ) capacitors
and one
0.0027 mfd ( 2.7 nf ) capacitor.
All of these particular capacitor mfd values
are all still readily and cheaply available.

I recommend that you
replace the cathode resistors , the screen grid resistors and the plate ( anode
) resistors inside the AO28 preamp with new metal film resistors of the same
ohms values as the original resistors.

If you have a copy of the AO28
schematic, the resistors to replace are the following:
R7 and R20 which are
both 2.2 mega ohms,
R8 and R19 which are both 470 K ohms,
R29 and R36
which are both 330 K ohms,
R17 and R42 which are both 1.2 K ohms,
I also
recommend that you replace the R9 820 K ohms resistor because if this has
drifted up in ohms value then the non vibrato channel will become too dull
sounding.

Because these resistors are carbon resistors , they might have
gradually drifted up in ohms value over the years so therefore it is best to
replace these with new metal film resistors because the metal film resistors do
not drift off in ohms value with age.
You can use metal film resistors that
are half watt rated or one watt rated.

I very strongly recommend that
you replace the high voltage power supply filter electrolytic capacitors in the
AO28 preamp with new capacitors because the original filter capacitors are well
past their use by date and they can fail at any time. These capacitors are
housed in the two multi capacitor metal can capacitors that are mounted upright
on top of the AO28 preamp chassis.
As well as housing the power supply filter
capacitors , one of the metal cans also contains the two 30 uf cathode bypass
capacitors for the valves ( tubes ) on the AO28 preamp.

You can buy
replacement multi capacitor metal can capacitors from Hammond parts suppliers
such as Tone wheel General Hospital or Goff Professional or from
www.hammondb3andleslietips.com etc , or you can buy the individual required
capacitor values and then mount these on a tag strip and then secure these
inside a suitable location in the AO28 preamp.

On the AO28 schematic the
high voltage power supply electrolytic capacitors are the following:
C56 and
C57 which are both 40 uf,
C58 which is 30 uf,
C59 which is 10 uf,
C60
which is 50 uf

Because the 30 uf and the 40 uf and the 50 uf values are
no longer readily available , you can use 33 uf to replace the C58 30 uf
capacitor, and you can use 47 uf capacitors to replace the C56 and C57 40 uf
capacitors and the C60 50 uf capacitors.

The replacement 47 uf capacitor
for the C56 needs to be rated at least 450 volts Dc , and for better safety and
reliability, I recommend that all the other replacement capacitors also be rated
at 400 or 450 volts DC.

The C9 and the C26 30 uf cathode bypass
capacitors can be replaced with 33 uf capacitors rated at 25 volts DC or higher
, and some people including myself have replaced these 30 uf capacitors with 470
uf capacitors in order to allow a fuller bottom bass pedal response but the
audible difference is very subtle.



Thanks again Kon!

Chris

**Guest** · 08-05-2009, 12:31 AM

Re: Restoring a C3..

Hi

Is there any simple way of dating the manuals to see if they're original? I have no information / prior history on the C3 so any tips as to where I might find date information etc. would be helpful. I'll check tonight to see if the serial number is stamped anywhere else (e.g. on the TG, motors, manuals...)

Thanks

Chris

**Guest** · 08-05-2009, 03:12 AM

Re: Restoring a C3..

Hi Dave

Thanks for the info. The stuff that Kon has researched (and shared) is really first class so I agree with you that the book isn't really necessary in this particular area. I was leaning towards buying the B3 Dis-assembly and Restoration Manual by Wayne Prue - mainly because it will (hopefully) tell me how to put the whole thing back together, overhaul the scanner etc. My C3 came in several boxes so I didn't have the luxury of seeing how it all came apart. So even for some relatively simple stuff like how to put the keys back in properly and which wire from the manual goes where on the TG would be helfpul. Its downloadable now - which makes it a bit easier on the wallet ($115 instead of $250!). I thought this book looked better than the other, but I think either would be useful as an overall guide.

I'm definitely going to implement all of Kon's suggestions though - his information is well researched and has a sound base.

Thanks again

Chris

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