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  • #1

    Compression driver issues



    Hey everyone,</p>

    I posted about this on the "Building your own Leslie" thread, but thought those of you that don't regularly check that (I can think of four, including myself, that do) might be able to help me out.</p>

    In my DIY Leslie I've been searching for a good upper driver, after realizing that a) an ordinary tweeter and b) a cheap Pyle driver that bottomed out at 800hz were not going to get me the sound I wanted. I recently bought a pair of vintage EV 1823 drivers thinking this would be it. They are each rated for 110 watts max and have a response of around 3-450 hz up to 8000. I also read that some people have recommended using them as replacements for the V21.</p>

    The problem is, when I tested them out I could not get very much volume at all before the signal started to sound "clipped" and distorted. I tried a multitude of capacitors in series with it and still could not avoid that distortion. I was powering the drivers with my 65 watt solid state guitar amp, and the volume knob could not exceed 2-3 without distortion. When I added the 15" I plan on using (Sound King? From a PA of some sort, I assume) into the setup, it overpowered the horn by a good amount. </p>

    The conclusion I came to is that there must be something wrong with the phenolic diaphragm. I opened each driver up (they both had the same symptoms) and could not find anything visually wrong with them, to my untrained eye at least. So now I'm wondering a few things: Are the diaphragms shot? Are they just misaligned, and if so a) how do I recognize that and b) how do I realign the diaphragm? Does anyone have any experience with this particular driver? Should I expect it to get loud at first and stay there, instead of increasing gradually?</p>

    I know this is not strictly related to the classic Hammond/Leslie setup, but again have heard that these have been used in place of the V21 and I'm hoping some of the expertise involved in working around that driver might be applied here.</p>

    Thanks in advance!
    </p>
    1955 M3 (in good hands!)
    1962 A100
    1942 BC
    too many other keyboards...
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Compression driver issues

    It sounds to me like you've got a lot of mis-matches in impedance and line voltages. You don't mention in enough details what you're working with. You also don't mention a crossover type.
    Hammonds: A; AB; B3; D; E; 6-M3's; 2-A100; T582C.
    Leslies: 3-31H; 21H, 22H, 4-44W; 46W; 25; 47; 45; 125; 50C; 51; 55C; 2-120; 122; 122A; 145; 147; 245; 770; 825; 2-102; 2-103; 300.
    Wicks 2/5 pipe organ; Yamaha upright; Kurzweil Micro Piano & Micro B with M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha DGX520; Wurlitzer 4100 (it came with a Leslie!). Peavey KB100 keyboard amp. Peavey Bass Guitar. Yes, I have A. D. (acquisition disorder) and don't want it cured.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Compression driver issues



      To clarify: The amplifier is designed to drive an 8 ohm speaker. The drivers measure 4 ohms each when tested, but the online manual for them specifies that they are 4 ohms DC, 7 ohms AC (?). For the most part I tested the drivers with a series capacitor to protect them from the lower frequencies, using an online crossover calculator to determine what values would do this. The crossover type for the whole set was a 1st order Butterworth, using the series capacitor and a single inductor coil for the 15". The woofer is an 8 ohm type but measures 5.33 ohms on the multimeter when tested completely on its own.</p>

      I tried using the drivers either on their own or together with the same setup and still got a lot of distortion. What would your recommendation be to correct possible mismatches (in both impedance and line voltage), and in what way would they create that buzzing and distortion?
      </p>
      1955 M3 (in good hands!)
      1962 A100
      1942 BC
      too many other keyboards...

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Compression driver issues



        oH!</p>

        g'DAY rED!</p>

        Try a second order or higher... the 1st order only reduces the low freq signal by 6dB, a second order reduces it by 12, and of course 3rd and 4th reduce it by more, a third is essentially a mix of ist and 2nd, a 4th is two seconds mixed together in effect, so probably 24dB.</p>

        With a 1st order there will still be significant lows coming thru.....</p>

        </p>
        -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
        -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
        -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-         -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
        -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Compression driver issues

          I'll try that. The manual did say these could be used with only a series capacitor to protect them from the lows--suggested value 100mfd, 50V. I tried that value and still got distortion. It doesn't seem like only low-freq that's doing it either--chords held in the upper octave loud enough distort pretty easily as well.
          1955 M3 (in good hands!)
          1962 A100
          1942 BC
          too many other keyboards...

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Compression driver issues



            What are you feeding into the amp? M3? Signal from where? </p>

            Do you have a crossover hooked up to the horn keeping out the lows below 800hz or at another frequency? Your impedances seem OK.</p>

            Are you using two horn drivers as a Leslie horn like on a turntable or ? You do have them hook in series not parallel right?
            </p>
            Hammonds: A; AB; B3; D; E; 6-M3's; 2-A100; T582C.
            Leslies: 3-31H; 21H, 22H, 4-44W; 46W; 25; 47; 45; 125; 50C; 51; 55C; 2-120; 122; 122A; 145; 147; 245; 770; 825; 2-102; 2-103; 300.
            Wicks 2/5 pipe organ; Yamaha upright; Kurzweil Micro Piano & Micro B with M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha DGX520; Wurlitzer 4100 (it came with a Leslie!). Peavey KB100 keyboard amp. Peavey Bass Guitar. Yes, I have A. D. (acquisition disorder) and don't want it cured.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Compression driver issues

              I'm using my Kawai K4 keyboard, out of the line level "Right/mono" output into the single input of my Fender Princeton SS guitar amp. The signal goes from the speaker leads of that amp (for lack of a better way) into a crossover network consisting of a 1.65 mH inductor coil for the 15", and a number of different cap values for the top--I've tried 27 or so uF, 47, 100 etc. There are some differences in the amount of distortion but I still experience a lot of it regardless of the capacitor value.
              1955 M3 (in good hands!)
              1962 A100
              1942 BC
              too many other keyboards...

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Compression driver issues

                Does the 15" speaker sound OK by itself?
                Hammonds: A; AB; B3; D; E; 6-M3's; 2-A100; T582C.
                Leslies: 3-31H; 21H, 22H, 4-44W; 46W; 25; 47; 45; 125; 50C; 51; 55C; 2-120; 122; 122A; 145; 147; 245; 770; 825; 2-102; 2-103; 300.
                Wicks 2/5 pipe organ; Yamaha upright; Kurzweil Micro Piano & Micro B with M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha DGX520; Wurlitzer 4100 (it came with a Leslie!). Peavey KB100 keyboard amp. Peavey Bass Guitar. Yes, I have A. D. (acquisition disorder) and don't want it cured.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Compression driver issues

                  In case the keyboard is the issue I will try to move this setup into the house so I can try my Hammond rig through it, or maybe a guitar. The patch is a pretty simple sine wave Hammond sound. I also ran a tone generator sweep through it (sine wave from 400-4000hz) and still got the distortion. The drivers got MUCH louder in the higher frequencies.
                  1955 M3 (in good hands!)
                  1962 A100
                  1942 BC
                  too many other keyboards...

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Compression driver issues

                    Yep, the 15" actually screams on its own. Overpowers the horn setup by a good amount when they are both connected.
                    1955 M3 (in good hands!)
                    1962 A100
                    1942 BC
                    too many other keyboards...

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Compression driver issues

                      Starting to sound like the problem is in the crossover setup.
                      Hammonds: A; AB; B3; D; E; 6-M3's; 2-A100; T582C.
                      Leslies: 3-31H; 21H, 22H, 4-44W; 46W; 25; 47; 45; 125; 50C; 51; 55C; 2-120; 122; 122A; 145; 147; 245; 770; 825; 2-102; 2-103; 300.
                      Wicks 2/5 pipe organ; Yamaha upright; Kurzweil Micro Piano & Micro B with M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha DGX520; Wurlitzer 4100 (it came with a Leslie!). Peavey KB100 keyboard amp. Peavey Bass Guitar. Yes, I have A. D. (acquisition disorder) and don't want it cured.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Compression driver issues

                        [quote user="TheAdmiral"]

                        Are you using two horn drivers as a Leslie horn like on a turntable or ? You do have them hook in series not parallel right?
                        </p>

                        [/quote]</p>

                        Not sure what you mean. I was going to find a Y adapter (probably PVC) to funnel both of these into the Leslie horn setup I have. I did make sure that when I had them together they were in series, not parallel.
                        </p>
                        1955 M3 (in good hands!)
                        1962 A100
                        1942 BC
                        too many other keyboards...

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Compression driver issues



                          [quote user="TheAdmiral"]Starting to sound like the problem is in the crossover setup.
                          [/quote]</p>

                          How so? What could I do to troubleshoot/fix that?
                          </p>
                          1955 M3 (in good hands!)
                          1962 A100
                          1942 BC
                          too many other keyboards...

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Compression driver issues

                            Then I'm not understanding how your horn setup is. Can you post pictures?
                            Hammonds: A; AB; B3; D; E; 6-M3's; 2-A100; T582C.
                            Leslies: 3-31H; 21H, 22H, 4-44W; 46W; 25; 47; 45; 125; 50C; 51; 55C; 2-120; 122; 122A; 145; 147; 245; 770; 825; 2-102; 2-103; 300.
                            Wicks 2/5 pipe organ; Yamaha upright; Kurzweil Micro Piano & Micro B with M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha DGX520; Wurlitzer 4100 (it came with a Leslie!). Peavey KB100 keyboard amp. Peavey Bass Guitar. Yes, I have A. D. (acquisition disorder) and don't want it cured.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Compression driver issues

                              [quote user="redoctoberff"]

                              [quote user="TheAdmiral"]Starting to sound like the problem is in the crossover setup.
                              [/quote]</p>

                              What could I do to troubleshoot/fix that?
                              </p>

                              [/quote]</p>

                              I'm not sure you can troubleshoot without the proper test equipment. Try just using one driver with the crossover and see what happens. Then swap them out to see if one is bad or they both sound the same individually..
                              </p>
                              Hammonds: A; AB; B3; D; E; 6-M3's; 2-A100; T582C.
                              Leslies: 3-31H; 21H, 22H, 4-44W; 46W; 25; 47; 45; 125; 50C; 51; 55C; 2-120; 122; 122A; 145; 147; 245; 770; 825; 2-102; 2-103; 300.
                              Wicks 2/5 pipe organ; Yamaha upright; Kurzweil Micro Piano & Micro B with M-Audio Oxygen 61; Yamaha DGX520; Wurlitzer 4100 (it came with a Leslie!). Peavey KB100 keyboard amp. Peavey Bass Guitar. Yes, I have A. D. (acquisition disorder) and don't want it cured.

                              Comment

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