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I never thought I' would admit it, but.....

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  • I never thought I' would admit it, but.....



    I recently got a plug-in for my computer that does the Hammond/Leslie thing. It is the Native Instruments B4 II plug-in. You know what? It sounds pretty darn good for what it is. Even the Leslie simulations sounds pretty good. I never thought I would ever admit that one. It has a number of neat parameters that can be adjusted. It even has a tonewheel cross-talk adjustment so you can get that harmonic noise going if you want. It has tone controls, selections for a number of different Leslie models, key-click and velocity adjustments, a balance control for adjusting the balance between the mikes on the upper and lower rotors, spring or studio reverb types as well as a number of other reverb parameters, a boat-load of pre-sets, and a host of other options.</p>

    Here is a short little ditty I did just so I could let everyone hear how it sounds. I hope this works. </p>

    http://cid-d5341e5d25be06b4.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/Music/Living^_Sin.mp3 </p>

    No, this is not an advertisement. I was impressed with how well this worked so I thought I would pass it along. Please excuse the sloppy technique. I had to practice this for a long time just to get it this good.</p>

    Now that they have a MIDI-ized Hammond that doesn't sound too bad someone needs to invent a candle that smells like hot tubes and Hammond oil. :þ
    </p>

  • #2
    Re: I never thought I' would admit it, but.....



    Kenny,</p>

    That does sound pretty decent. Is this done with a midi keyboard hooked to your computer? Can it be output somehow to an amp? I have just started playing around with midi files on Garage Band but have yet to use them through a midi keyboard so don't understand much about it yet.</p>

    Bob
    </p>
    http://www.petty-larceny-band.com/



    Yamaha DGX-300
    1959 Hammond M3
    1961 Hammond A101
    VB3 with M Audio Axiom
    1975 Leslie 130 upgraded with V21 top rotor, tube amp, wood lower rotor
    1972 Leslie 825 upgraded with top rotor, etc.
    2011 Neo Ventilator
    Casio WK-7500
    Yamaha P50m Module
    Roland VR-09
    Casio PX-5S

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: I never thought I' would admit it, but.....

      [quote user="bossbandbob"]

      Kenny,</p>

      That does sound pretty decent. Is this done with a midi keyboard hooked to your computer? Can it be output somehow to an amp? I have just started playing around with midi files on Garage Band but have yet to use them through a midi keyboard so don't understand much about it yet.</p>

      Bob
      </p>

      [/quote]</p>

      Yup. I hooked the MIDI output of my old DX7 to the MIDI input of my computer and away I go. To hook it to an amp all you would have to do is run a cable from the output of the computer's sound card to an amp or PA system. The cool thing about this is that it doesn't require the amp to get "THE" sound. That all happens in the computer. All the amp needs to do is make it loud. It really does need to be stereo to make the Leslie effect work well though. Realistically it could be done with a laptop computer. How's that for portability?!
      </p>

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: I never thought I' would admit it, but.....



        So if you have a midi keyboard and laptop already (as most of us do) you get the Hammond/Leslie sound (or at least something darn close to it ) and easy portability for about 200$ for the software. Now I know why I see kb players with laptops at some concerts!
        </p>

        As the laptop will output in stereo, I presume you mean the whole set up will need either two amps or a stereo PA for the Leslie effect to work?
        </p>
        http://www.petty-larceny-band.com/



        Yamaha DGX-300
        1959 Hammond M3
        1961 Hammond A101
        VB3 with M Audio Axiom
        1975 Leslie 130 upgraded with V21 top rotor, tube amp, wood lower rotor
        1972 Leslie 825 upgraded with top rotor, etc.
        2011 Neo Ventilator
        Casio WK-7500
        Yamaha P50m Module
        Roland VR-09
        Casio PX-5S

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: I never thought I' would admit it, but.....

          Yup.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: I never thought I' would admit it, but.....



            I think B4-II is the king of the heap when it comes to software clones, but do also listen to VB3 from Genuine Soundware, which does most of what B4 does, but at a fraction of the cost, and also LinPlug's Organ 3, which takes a different approach and lets you apply some synth techniques to the Hammond sound, so it's not just another clonewheel.</p>

            Really good fun to use all or any of them, and with B4 and VB3 especially, it's perfectly possible to fool most of the people most of them time. (But probably not those who are real Hammond afficianados!)
            </p>
            It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

            New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

            Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
            Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
            Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
            Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: I never thought I' would admit it, but.....



              Thanks Andy,</p>

              Those sound worth checking out.....now if someone would just invent a 3D virtual B3 image we could project on stage. I personally like the looks of the black ones!</p>

              Bob
              </p>
              http://www.petty-larceny-band.com/



              Yamaha DGX-300
              1959 Hammond M3
              1961 Hammond A101
              VB3 with M Audio Axiom
              1975 Leslie 130 upgraded with V21 top rotor, tube amp, wood lower rotor
              1972 Leslie 825 upgraded with top rotor, etc.
              2011 Neo Ventilator
              Casio WK-7500
              Yamaha P50m Module
              Roland VR-09
              Casio PX-5S

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: I never thought I' would admit it, but.....



                I have used B4, then B4II for years in a live setting at church. This year, I switched to VB3. I like the sound better with VB3, especially on the high end of the keyboard, where B4II gets a little too screechy.</p>

                I have the B4D hardware drawbar controller. I also run the VB3 output to drive a Leslie 145. In fact, no kit. I made a passive adapter with a 1/4" input for the audio and a second jack for the pedal I use for switching. As for fooling anyone, it fools me just fine. Of course going through a real Leslie is the key. Also, I'm not playing jazz organ but rather single manual organ for fills and organ licks.</p>

                I also use all of NI plug-ins. My piano, E. piano,synths etc. are all computer plugs. More recently, I bought Omnisphere and it does wonderful pads, strings, and those big film sounds. These software sounds are so much better than standard keyboards.
                </p>

                BTW... I believe these software Hammonds sound better than most hardware clones. When I first heard the B4, I directly compared it to my XK2 Hammond and my 1957 B3. I sold the XK2 right away because the software sounded almost exactly like the B3. I was blown away.</p>

                Running software is tricky. You need a very tweaked computer, you need to stay on top of the updates, and follow forums that others discuss the technology so you can avoid incompatibilities and get the most of your software.</p>

                Geoelectro
                </p>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: I never thought I' would admit it, but.....



                  Oh yeah, B4II is discontinued.</p>

                  Geoelectro
                  </p>

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: I never thought I' would admit it, but.....



                    If anyone's interested, I posted a few samples of my setup: the VB3 software through a custom Leslie and Speakeasy tube preamp. On the picture it doesn't look that good but on stage it looks pretty cool from the audience.I often have people come and ask me if it's a real B3 (??!!!!)
                    </p>

                    http://martinbournival.tripod.com/id1.html (Hymn to freedom)</p>

                    By the way, you don't need such a tweaked laptop, but an audio interface does help. I use an old Thinkpad, but I'm guessing one of the new cheap netbooks might even work. </p>


                    </p>
                    A100, X77, M3, M100, E100
                    Leslie 147, 145, homemade road Leslie
                    My youtube channel

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: I never thought I' would admit it, but.....



                      B4-II discontinued! That's something of a surprise - unless B4-III is about to appear..... If not, then VB3 will mop up some sales, I'm sure.
                      </p>

                      I actually haven't done that many tweaks to Windows XP or the hardware on this system, though there are plenty that you can apply, and I spent quite some time optimising its predecessor. If performance does become an issue, then I'll apply them again. A good audio card/interface is indeed the key point. I had B4 running on my daughter's laptop, also a rather lowly IBM Thinkpad, with an Echo Indigo card.</p>

                      Andy
                      </p>
                      It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

                      New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

                      Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
                      Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
                      Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
                      Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: I never thought I' would admit it, but.....

                        I haven't tweaked Windows XP on my 3.2 GHz, dual processor, desktop, machine either but I have pretty good audio hardware in it. Until a week ago I had 2, old, Echo, 20 bit, 8 track, Gina, cards in it. Now I have added an MBox 2 Pro to that so I could run Pro Tools. Now it works with either set of hardware. If I am recording with Pro Tools I try to keep all of the synth plug-ins running through the MBox and so far I have had no issues. But, I have not yet done any sizeable recordings that would tax the system. When I do, and if I have resource issues, I am going to attempt running the synths through the Gina cards and record either SPDIF or the analog outputs of them into Pro Tools and the MBox. My reason for this is that the Gina cards have their own onboard DSP's so they won't tax the computer's processors as much as the MBox would. That is my theory anyway. I haven't tried it yet so I'll have to wait and see how it goes. I recently bumped up my on-board RAM to 3GB from 1GB. That should help.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: I never thought I' would admit it, but.....



                          Yes, just running the organ software is no big deal. I meant in my case where I run several plug-ins at a time (as many as 7) and push the computer rather hard. My first laptop was barely over a 1GH CPU and only 256MB of RAM! It ran B4 and B4II perfectly. I too had the echo Indigo card.</p>

                          B4II was discontinued and they are not going to make a newer version. They also discontinued Pro-53 (prophet 5 emulator) as well as Akoustik Piano and Elektrik Piano. The E.Piano samples will now be included in Kontakt (sample player) and you can play AP samples with it as well. That's how I use them. I can still use B4II and Pro-53. If however some new OS comes along that they won't work on, then that's it, or keep them on an older system.</p>

                          Geoelectro
                          </p>

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: I never thought I' would admit it, but.....

                            I have the B4 software as well. It's a pretty nice sound. But as the Native Instruments stuff goes, the Akoustik Piano program is the one I was most impressed with. It is a solid grand piano sound.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: I never thought I' would admit it, but.....

                              [quote user="geoelectro"]

                              B4II was discontinued and they are not going to make a newer version.</p>

                              [/quote]</p>

                              Guido Sconamiglio will no doubt be very pleased to hear that the biggest rival to his VB3 has gone, then!</p>

                              </p>
                              It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

                              New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

                              Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
                              Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
                              Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
                              Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

                              Comment

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