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Hammond M3 foldback kits. Any advice?

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    Hammond M3 foldback kits. Any advice?



    I'm thinking of adding foldback to the upper manual of my M3. Has anyone had experience with this? Can anyone recommend a particular kit? </p>

    Any helpful thoughts, advice, or opinions on this topic are appreciated.</p>

    Thanks!</p>

    #2
    Re: Hammond M3 foldback kits. Any advice?



    The M3 kits cost a bit more 'cos they include a full length bussbar to replace the half sized one.</p>

    Two places that sell 'em (that I know of) arehttp://bullfrogmusic.ca/keys/foldbac...spinet-organs/</p>

    and this place in the UK reports to be able to provide 'em as well.</p>

    You'll want to do manual tapering at the same time too, involves a bit of wire and some resistors.</p>

    This guy did it on his M:http://www.sympac.com.au/~retrojet/foldback.htm</p>

    I've got plenty of photos and advice from when I did my T500.</p>

    I've gotta zoom right now though....</p>

    -Brendoon</p>
    -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
    -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
    -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
    -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
    -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

    Comment


      #3
      My name is Steve and I am an organaholic

      My Baby B3.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsJCpoUI_Lk

      The Goods
      B3 organ and Leslie 147, Fender Rhodes 88, Hohner Clavinet C, Moog MINIMOOOOOG, Arp Omni, Wurlitzer 200A, Yamaha CS50, Arp Pro/DGX, Prophet 08, Baldwin Digital, RE-201 Roland Space Echo

      Spare stuff
      Super chopped M3, B2 w/ Trek II Perc, Govt. Issue CV (G), C2 w/ Trek II Perc, X25?, Modded CV3, BV, 1 stock M3, The Piper (lol), Leslie 31H, Leslie 125, two Leslie 145's

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Hammond M3 foldback kits. Any advice?



        The mod requires adding 36 resistors-one to each key in the upper octave for the first three drawbars-to the resistance wires inside the manual, so yes, you will have to take apart the upper manual. From what I understand it's fairly similar to foldback in terms of the work involved.</p>

        In order to understand the mod you need to understand the way that tapering works. The Model A (and I think the E, although I'm not sure of that) and all spinet organs have *no* tapering in the manuals. In other words, no work was done to balance the respective volumes or "natural" volume taper of the keys--all have 16 ohm resistance wires. The later consoles have resistance wires that are less than 16 ohms to increase the volume of the notes in the top octave, for the first three drawbars only.</p>

        The mod involves soldering a 27 ohm resistor in parallel with the existing resistance wire for each of those 36 notes. I had the relevant info at one point but can't find it right now. Brendon should be along shortly and can help you out--as far as I know he's the only one who's done it; sounds like it was an idea of Kon's that he never get around to messing with. I might do it to my M this summer, if I can also secure the parts to do foldback.
        </p>
        1955 M3 (in good hands!)
        1962 A100
        1942 BC
        too many other keyboards...

        Comment


          #5
          My name is Steve and I am an organaholic

          My Baby B3.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsJCpoUI_Lk

          The Goods
          B3 organ and Leslie 147, Fender Rhodes 88, Hohner Clavinet C, Moog MINIMOOOOOG, Arp Omni, Wurlitzer 200A, Yamaha CS50, Arp Pro/DGX, Prophet 08, Baldwin Digital, RE-201 Roland Space Echo

          Spare stuff
          Super chopped M3, B2 w/ Trek II Perc, Govt. Issue CV (G), C2 w/ Trek II Perc, X25?, Modded CV3, BV, 1 stock M3, The Piper (lol), Leslie 31H, Leslie 125, two Leslie 145's

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Hammond M3 foldback kits. Any advice?

            I've done two foldbacks,, it's a lot of work and one mistake means taking the wholle manual back apart to fix the problem,, it's just a ton of work,, one of my biggest problems is just not scratching everything up,, so if guy had a prstene organ and he wanted foldback ,, I would be nervous,, I got M2s for my parts,, you can find them really cheap,, most people don't know much about foldback so it's hard to get people intrested,,

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Hammond M3 foldback kits. Any advice?

              I don't think the resistors are connected directly to the contacts because then they could not be wired in parallel with the existing wires, they would be wired in series. You may be confused with the other set of resistors Brendon had inside his manuals for another mod which may have been connected that way. You have to wire in parallel so that the resistance *decreases* otherwise you would have added resistance from the 27 ohm resistors.
              1955 M3 (in good hands!)
              1962 A100
              1942 BC
              too many other keyboards...

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Hammond M3 foldback kits. Any advice?



                Agh,</p>

                I'm here now, but my brain is still swimming in the dregs of the last cup of coffee and looking for more. I hope it catches up with me soon....</p>

                The resistors attached to wires, as seen in the below pic are either when I've run out of contacts for foldback (and cut spare contacts from the drum machine percussion on my T500's lower manual) or when I was doing the tapering... but in both situations I was using fresh (enamelled) wire, not special resistance wire (hense the added resistors): </p>

                </p>

                That little reel gives me something like 50 metres of wire!!!!! I'm NEVER going to use all that up...</p>

                So, just to give you the definitive on it, you leave the existing resistance wires AS is.</p>

                However, I hear that an M3 is DASHED awkward to get inside the manuals on, because the spinet's cabinet top is glued in place, leaving very little room for manouvering. Geoff Williamson found he had to stand the manual up vertically to work inside it!</p>

                Please take notes (and photos?) if you do it, I need a first hand text from someone doing the job inside an M3... so the manual can be written up for general spinet foldback and tapering. </p>

                </p>

                Here's a recording from a cupla nights ago, the 16', 5 1/3' 8' and 4' are fully out on both manuals. The top octave has tapering, so is louder than the rest, quite nifty... and the lower is dropped an octave. Great for smears and left hand bass.</p>

                Since then I've mucked up my pedals and swell, there's always work for the DIY modder....</p>

                http://cid-0d7741cc63af1adc.skydrive...20and%20Dm.MP3</p>

                The recording was a low quality mono from a digital camera. Converting from Wav to MP3 dropped it from 44bps to 40bps, I don't know how that will affect it on your computer....</p>

                Cheers!</p>

                -Brendooon</p>
                -1958 Hofner 550 archtop guitar -1959 C3 and PR40- -1964 Busillachio Harmonium- -1964 M101-
                -1967ish Leslie 122- -1975 T500 (modded..chopped, and reassembled!)-
                -DIY 760 FrankenLeslie/rat hideout-
                -1980 Electrokey Electric Piano- -Yamaha electric Harmonium (early 80's?)-
                -1990 Jansen GMF150 amp- -1992 Korg 01W/fd- -1992 G&L S-500 geetar.

                Comment


                  #9
                  My name is Steve and I am an organaholic

                  My Baby B3.
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsJCpoUI_Lk

                  The Goods
                  B3 organ and Leslie 147, Fender Rhodes 88, Hohner Clavinet C, Moog MINIMOOOOOG, Arp Omni, Wurlitzer 200A, Yamaha CS50, Arp Pro/DGX, Prophet 08, Baldwin Digital, RE-201 Roland Space Echo

                  Spare stuff
                  Super chopped M3, B2 w/ Trek II Perc, Govt. Issue CV (G), C2 w/ Trek II Perc, X25?, Modded CV3, BV, 1 stock M3, The Piper (lol), Leslie 31H, Leslie 125, two Leslie 145's

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Hammond M3 foldback kits. Any advice?

                    I deleted this post. It was no longer a question.
                    My name is Steve and I am an organaholic

                    My Baby B3.
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsJCpoUI_Lk

                    The Goods
                    B3 organ and Leslie 147, Fender Rhodes 88, Hohner Clavinet C, Moog MINIMOOOOOG, Arp Omni, Wurlitzer 200A, Yamaha CS50, Arp Pro/DGX, Prophet 08, Baldwin Digital, RE-201 Roland Space Echo

                    Spare stuff
                    Super chopped M3, B2 w/ Trek II Perc, Govt. Issue CV (G), C2 w/ Trek II Perc, X25?, Modded CV3, BV, 1 stock M3, The Piper (lol), Leslie 31H, Leslie 125, two Leslie 145's

                    Comment


                      #11
                      My name is Steve and I am an organaholic

                      My Baby B3.
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsJCpoUI_Lk

                      The Goods
                      B3 organ and Leslie 147, Fender Rhodes 88, Hohner Clavinet C, Moog MINIMOOOOOG, Arp Omni, Wurlitzer 200A, Yamaha CS50, Arp Pro/DGX, Prophet 08, Baldwin Digital, RE-201 Roland Space Echo

                      Spare stuff
                      Super chopped M3, B2 w/ Trek II Perc, Govt. Issue CV (G), C2 w/ Trek II Perc, X25?, Modded CV3, BV, 1 stock M3, The Piper (lol), Leslie 31H, Leslie 125, two Leslie 145's

                      Comment


                        #12
                        My name is Steve and I am an organaholic

                        My Baby B3.
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsJCpoUI_Lk

                        The Goods
                        B3 organ and Leslie 147, Fender Rhodes 88, Hohner Clavinet C, Moog MINIMOOOOOG, Arp Omni, Wurlitzer 200A, Yamaha CS50, Arp Pro/DGX, Prophet 08, Baldwin Digital, RE-201 Roland Space Echo

                        Spare stuff
                        Super chopped M3, B2 w/ Trek II Perc, Govt. Issue CV (G), C2 w/ Trek II Perc, X25?, Modded CV3, BV, 1 stock M3, The Piper (lol), Leslie 31H, Leslie 125, two Leslie 145's

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Hammond M3 foldback kits. Any advice?



                          If you're trying to achieve 10 Ohms by wiring a resistor in parallel with the existing 16 Ohm resistance wire, they you'll need a 27 Ohm resistor. The resistance of 27 Ohms paralleled with 16 Ohms is (27 x 16) / (27 + 16) = 10 Ohms. Another (equivalent) way to calculate this is 1 / (1/27 + 1/16) = 10.</p>

                          Note that the wire that Brendon showed is not bare wire. It is enamel coated. You can still short it out if it rubs against a sharp edge, which will scrape off the enamel, but it is insulated wire. Personally though, I'd use thin wire with plastic insulation. A great source of this stuff is old 25-pin straight-through serial cables, which contain 25 wires in 25 different colours. That would make it a lot easier to keep track of which wire is which. I've been using that in wiring up a keyboard in my current project: http://www.stefanv.com/electronics/p..._n_thingz.html (see the last two photos if you want to see a lot of wires).</p>

                          PS. Has anyone tried using this site with Google's "Chrome" browser? I find the site looks fine, but I can't respond to posts. Everything I write doesn't show up when I preview the post.
                          </p>

                          </p>
                          Stefan Vorkoetter: http://www.stefanv.com

                          1962 Hammond M-111 with Improved Vibrato, Internal Rotary Speaker, Drum Machine,
                          Window Seat Tone Cabinets, Completely Rebuilt Amplifier, and Recapped Tone Generator.
                          1978 PAiA 1550 Stringz'n'Thingz with many enhancements.
                          2017 Raspberry Pi organ-top synthesizer.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            My name is Steve and I am an organaholic

                            My Baby B3.
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsJCpoUI_Lk

                            The Goods
                            B3 organ and Leslie 147, Fender Rhodes 88, Hohner Clavinet C, Moog MINIMOOOOOG, Arp Omni, Wurlitzer 200A, Yamaha CS50, Arp Pro/DGX, Prophet 08, Baldwin Digital, RE-201 Roland Space Echo

                            Spare stuff
                            Super chopped M3, B2 w/ Trek II Perc, Govt. Issue CV (G), C2 w/ Trek II Perc, X25?, Modded CV3, BV, 1 stock M3, The Piper (lol), Leslie 31H, Leslie 125, two Leslie 145's

                            Comment


                              #15
                              My name is Steve and I am an organaholic

                              My Baby B3.
                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsJCpoUI_Lk

                              The Goods
                              B3 organ and Leslie 147, Fender Rhodes 88, Hohner Clavinet C, Moog MINIMOOOOOG, Arp Omni, Wurlitzer 200A, Yamaha CS50, Arp Pro/DGX, Prophet 08, Baldwin Digital, RE-201 Roland Space Echo

                              Spare stuff
                              Super chopped M3, B2 w/ Trek II Perc, Govt. Issue CV (G), C2 w/ Trek II Perc, X25?, Modded CV3, BV, 1 stock M3, The Piper (lol), Leslie 31H, Leslie 125, two Leslie 145's

                              Comment

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