re-route bass pedal tones too lower manual of spinet?
Haven't posted anything for a while but I always read the forum posts to learn what I can and it's been tons!!!!
</p>
Here's a question for the forum if anyone has any thoughts on this...
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</p>
Have any spinet owners out there ever re-routed the pedal bass tones to the lower manual?</p>
I'm doing my own version of the ebay plans for a "B3 look alike chop" on one of my M3's right now and would really like to have some method to still play bass notes if anyone has any tips or ideas ...</p>
Re: re-route bass pedal tones too lower manual of spinet?
I could swear I've read about doing that but it might have just been this page.</p>
http://www.sympac.com.au/~retrojet/LHBass.htm</p>
Looks a bit too complicated for me. I haven't gotten around to testing this method yet, but I was thinking one could create an FX loop at the matching transformer for the lower manual (Trek II does this... the loops only apply to the one manual) and use an octavider pedal to get the bass. The concerns about polyphony, I think, go away if you use a Boss OC3 instead of the OC2--the former IS polyphonic. I don't know how great it is for this application and I've been wanting to try this strategy out with my friend's multieffects pedal but have yet to build the loop.</p>
That seems like the easiest route though. You probably could get the tones on the lower manual but I personally don't like the sound of the M3 bass pedals very much at all. Might be worth a try though.
</p>
1955 M3 (in good hands!)
1962 A100
1942 BC
too many other keyboards...
Re: re-route bass pedal tones too lower manual of spinet?
I did it on an L-100. I located the 13 lowest notes on the cable harness going to the lower manual. I did that by taking a clip lead with one end connected to a drawbar and the other end clipped to a pin or needle. Then I simply pushed the pin into the insulation of a single wire in the harness to hear the pitch. Once I located the proper wires, I cut them. The part going to the manual was then connected to a switch. This was a single pole double throw SPDT switch with about 20 sections. It was a push on/push off. The wires going to the manual were connected so that the switch would connect them back to the original pitch wires or the pedal tones from the generator. That way, I could have pedals on the manual or have it be back to normal.</p>
I remember having to also add the pedal drawbar to this switch so that the pedal drawbar would be used for the pedal tones rather then the lowest manual drawbar. This was done in the 70's on an organ that was later chopped. This switch was rather unusual having so many SPST contacts and may be hard to find these days. Still, it could be done with a regular switch and a series of small relays.</p>
Another odd thing is that the manual starts on F while the pedals start on C. I just ran from F up and then C to E. So the octave jumped down when crossing the C note on the manual. One could start at the low C and have a continuous octave of bass.</p>
BTW... it worked well and the pedal tones on the L-series actually sound very good.</p>
Re: re-route bass pedal tones too lower manual of spinet?
I had the same recollection as you Red. After a bit of searchingI found there wasa discussion on Hammond Zone about adding the 2 missing lower drawbars to the lower manual of Brendon's T500. Basically the same issue.</P>
Hers's a dump ofthe thread, only 4 posts....... (pls excuse the blatant cross posting) Simon.</P>
Chris,
Yes, dividers would be a better way. Tonewheel General do the Trek GNR-1 and
GNR-2 note replacement units: http://www.tonewheelgeneral.com/buil...an+Accessories
To do 5 tones Brendon would need 2 off GNR-1 and 3 off GNR-2 which would be
about US$570 - somehow I don't think thats going to happen!
Back to the DIY route then. The divider circuit from the T's 8' pedal could
be copied or use a standard divider chip. Then it needs filtering to make a
clean sine wave tone, eg. high-Q band pass or steep low pass. Then you need
a low impedance output stage to drive the drawbar bus.... For me as an
electronic geek it's doable but looking like yet another project for the
winter evenings.
I glossed over the busbars and contacts issue because I knew Brendon had
alreay done the upper end foldback.
Simon.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Clifton" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [hammond_zone] Time to lighten the load with another outlandish
question
> Adding 16' and 51/3 to the lower manual of the T-series would mean
> putting the extra bus-bars and key contacts in the manual. No big deal
> for someone who's done the foldback modification. The T-series tone
> generator has no frequencies below tone 18, frequencies 1 -13 for the
> pedals are divided from frequencies 25 - 37. However if the intention is
> to foldback the lowest bass octave in the same way as the console
> organs, you don't need anything lower than 13. There are electronic
> frequency replacement kits on the market for replacing missing notes in
> a faulty generator. Basically, these work by taking the frequency an
> octave (12 tones) higher, dividing it by two electronically and
> filtering and buffering the output to provide a sine wave output at a
> level and impedance similar to the output of a real tonewheel. Some of
> these could be used to provide the missing tones needed to add 16' to
> the lower manual of a spinet.
> Getting those two extra drawbars in is likely to be a bit of a squeeze.
> Looking at my L-100 there is just about enough room, but the 16' bar
> would be very close to the side of the cabinet.
>
> Simon Burtsal wrote:
>> Hi Brendon,
>> Funny, just the other day I was thinking why didn't they put the sub-fund
>> and sub-3rd on the lower manual and could it be done. The answer is that
>> its
>> more than just adding the manual wiring, 2 preamps and 2 drawbars. The
>> reason is that the TG is missing tones 13 - 17 that would be needed for
>> the
>> sub-fund of notes C - E in the bottom octave.
>>
>> I suppose a 5 tone oscillator board could be DIY'd but would it have the
>> added dirt, probably not without some R&D. Then is it really worth it,
>> when
>> the bottom 5 notes of the manual are missing anyway ?
>>
>> The bus recovery preamp is a simple circuit and a pair of them could be
>> made
>> easily on prototype board - like your buffer board.
..<snip>..
>> Cheers,
>> Simon
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brendon Wright" <[email protected]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:38 PM
>> Subject: [hammond_zone] Time to lighten the load with another outlandish
>> question
>>
>> Hallo folks!
>> It's been a good while, and a good time, since I've posted with a daft
>> question, I thought it was about high time for the mental health of list
>> members and their grandmothers alike for me to do so.
..<snip>..
>> It ocurred to me this morning...
>> that fantastic growling 16" foldback on the bottom 1.5 octaves of the
>> lower
>> manual could be mine by just adding the preamp circuity for the 16"
>> drawbar
>> and 5 1/3"... (and drawbars for both. I've got an LSI cougar sitting
>> around
>> for my Dad I could accidentally dismember, he wasn't that fussed whether
>> he
>> had it or not...) to do this could a silly sod like myself print out a
>> new
>> UPPER preamp board and wire it up for the lower manual instead?
>>
>> Is this fairly silly? Or could it work in theory?
..<snip>..
>> Chow, y'all!
>>
>> -Brendooooon
>>
</P>
Re: re-route bass pedal tones too lower manual of spinet?
Thanks for all the kick ass feedback everybody!</p>
I've used the BOSS super octave pedal on an M3 before and it's actually very good sounding ( even devastating at times ). It has 2 outputs: 1direct signal and 1effected signal. This makes it awesome for routing just the bass signal to a small powered sub or bass amp while the direct signal carries on to my leslie 145/47.
</p>
Upon tweaking the pedal, there was really only one optimum setting that sounded great. So I'm thinking of maybe going with that option... a simple on/off switch ( & maybe an overall bass volume control knob too ) mounted on the front with the pedal mounted inside would probably work just fine.</p>
I guess the main thing I need to learn more about is making an effects loop just for the lower manual...</p>
Cheers yall,</p>
D </p>
</p>
p.s. brendon, I've got some fun new t-series photo's coming soon. I painted reversed keys on my t222 to give it the German look... i'll put em up when i get off the road in a few days...
</p>
Re: re-route bass pedal tones too lower manual of spinet?
Sweet, D!</p>
There's a chap here just bought a T in the UK, I told him about your flame red T.... any pictures on here he could see?</p>
I finally got my whammy switch in. Got the 80's metal divebombs going on.... just the jolly LED didn't go in it... gonna cut some room in it for a neon bulb that can run off mains, I think. I also found that by bypassing the resistors that go IN to the preamp with a pot you can get a screaming hot overdrive... especially with 2 or 3 germaniums after the preamp!</p>
Re: re-route bass pedal tones to lower manual of spinet?
That's really cool to hear about your new mods. got any new sound clips or pics? I put up some new pics today but I cant get the red organ pic to flip right side up ( computer or human error? ) so it's in my photo gallery upside down for now...</p>
I'm working on my own version of the ebay advertised "B3 style" style chopped M3 which was mentioned here at the organ forum recently. I'm changing the design a little to make it my own so I really could use some input as the project comes together. I'll put some photo's up tomorrow.</p>
I'll be starting a new thread soon inquiring if the TWG (with motor) from an L series could be swapped into an M3 without too much difficulty...</p>
Re: re-route bass pedal tones too lower manual of spinet?
I recallTonewheel1966 in his other guise as David Hughes on Hammond Zone once asked about why not just have the pedals rerouted to the lower manual, I think one of the possible objections was that the single note nature of the pedals would be a nuisance when playing chords in that lowest octave. Seems like no problem to me!</p>
However, there wouldn't be spare bussbars, so they'd have to share the 8' or something and be switchable in case you wanted the 8' by itself. What about relocating the pedal keyer switches underneath the bottom octave of keys? no custom rewiring as such, just relocation of boards and switches. Might make the keys alittle harder to press...</p>
Re: re-route bass pedal tones too lower manual of spinet?
Re-locating the pedal switches is a great idea ! It would take a bit of work but it doesn't require any special wiring or sharing bussbars so it's great for me. I'll need to repeat a few notes too as the pedals start on C but the lower manual starts on F. I have a couple spare M3 pedal sections that I can grab the extra contacts from. I'm gonna try it...
Re: re-route bass pedal tones too lower manual of spinet?
I thinks there's a way to run it with an extra motor. I have a spare M3 scanner/motor/TWG section in the garage that maybe I could use for parts...</p>
Re: re-route bass pedal tones too lower manual of spinet?
Egad!</P>
Be careful of that heated Canadian brain of yours!</P>
I can tell the cleverness "beserker rage" has just hit and you're going to race a round like a lab-rat on steroids until this new creation is born.</P>
Wear a bag of ice to preventyour CPUoverheating and don't forget to go into hibernation mode at least 7 or 8 hours in every 24!</P>
Keep a card of both ibuprofen and paracetomol handy, and a mug of coffee to help the body absorb them in the case of excessive brow knitting.</P>
Ensure that any children or people who ask daft questions be restrained at a point no closer than the front lawn... oh! And snip the phonecord.</P>
People keep ringing when the soldering iron is just in position and you're twisted upside down on a pulley to get your head in between the manuals.</P>
It's most often not because somebody is breathing their last and needs you immediately, well at least not more than four times out of ten, so you can safely even flick the answer machine off.</P>
Remember too that if the boss doesn't see you in three days without an excuse he may send a search party....</P>
Re: re-route bass pedal tones too lower manual of spinet?
Hi Guys</P>
The T's have less tonewheels than the L's. L's have the bottom 13 missing I'm sure but now sure about M100/M3. If I can find the thread from Kon I'll post it.</P>
I did it on an L-100. I located the 13 lowest notes on the cable harness going to the lower manual. I did that by taking a clip lead with one end connected to a drawbar and the other end clipped to a pin or needle. Then I simply pushed the pin into the insulation of a single wire in the harness to hear the pitch. Once I located the proper wires, I cut them. The part going to the manual was then connected to a switch. This was a single pole double throw SPDT switch with about 20 sections. It was a push on/push off. The wires going to the manual were connected so that the switch would connect them back to the original pitch wires or the pedal tones from the generator. That way, I could have pedals on the manual or have it be back to normal.</p>
I remember having to also add the pedal drawbar to this switch so that the pedal drawbar would be used for the pedal tones rather then the lowest manual drawbar. This was done in the 70's on an organ that was later chopped. This switch was rather unusual having so many SPST contacts and may be hard to find these days. Still, it could be done with a regular switch and a series of small relays.</p>
Another odd thing is that the manual starts on F while the pedals start on C. I just ran from F up and then C to E. So the octave jumped down when crossing the C note on the manual. One could start at the low C and have a continuous octave of bass.</p>
BTW... it worked well and the pedal tones on the L-series actually sound very good.</p>
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