'63 hammond M3 organ chop..help please!

[Guest]

my name is nemo, and this is my story...</P>


i got a 1963 hammond M3 organ for 5 dollars, it was sitting on its side waiting for three men strong enough to lift it and dump it in the dumpster, some idiot already busted off a leg...so i offered the guy 5 dollars for it. got it home, took three men to get it inside and did some reaserch on it. needed oil. got some singer sewing machine oil ( i know it terrible for it) and it runs and sounds great! i love it. but here is the problem, its too heavy and i am part of a band and would love to move it around. i had the idea to seperate it into managable pieces (just one man) and seeing as how its missing a leg, the lacqure finish is peeling off down to the wood and has stains like it was used for a coffie table, i am planing to chop it, and build a whole new case. this is my basic plan.</P>


have speperate cases for different components, 1 for pedels and amp, 1 for the EM speaker, 1 for the tone generator and 1 for the whole keyboard/upper assembly.</P>


the problem i am having is how to wire the keyboard and tone generator together,i thought of using 25 pin printer connectors to join the two parts, but i dont have much experiance with analog audio signals.........</P>


also, beauty does not matter much to me, i just want to have the sound be as great as it is.</P>


another thought, if i use a grounded 3 prong chord and encase the cases( no pun intended) with metal and ground that, but never have the organ grounded or any of its various parts, would that help with hum? please poke all the holes in this you want, i need help with how to do this and what could go wrong, this is the best sounding piece of musica equipment i have ever touched, including my parents 10,000 worth of equipment! thanks again, </P>


nemo</P>

[CEB]

Re: '63 hammond M3 organ chop..help please!



How much current will need to run through the 25-pin cable?</P>


What is a25-pin cable rated to handle?</P>


I have no idea but I think you will need to answer these questions. I guess the worst case scenario is you set the organ on fire. But other than that you could give it a try and see what happens.</P>

[Guest]

Re: '63 hammond M3 organ chop..help please!



a computer cable connector, the printer kind. but im forgetting that the voltage on the tone generator, huh? well i need ideas, i was thinking a printer cable becase they are shield cables. what would you suggest? thanks,</P>


nemo</P>
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[Brendon Wright]

Re: '63 hammond M3 organ chop..help please!



Aha! You'll want a free M3 manual then Nemo!</P>


http://www.archive.org/details/Hammo...delsMM2M3M-100</P>



When I chop my T500 I'm planning on pinching the plastic plugs from a later electronic organ I have.</P>


The other thing is folks often shift the power amp into the upper cavity behind the manuals, that doesn't help with weight at all, but it does mean you only need the wiresrunning toyour pedals.</P>


Also means you can still pay even if you forget the pedals.</P>


I'll help you find links to some nice chop pics, but I'd better get on to work right now!</P>


Cheers!</P>


-Brendoon</P>
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[Brendon Wright]

Re: '63 hammond M3 organ chop..help please!



Oh, yeah, </P>


and add casters to one end of the new case and handles to the other!</P>

[CEB]

Re: '63 hammond M3 organ chop..help please!

[quote user="nemoskull"]


a computer cable connector, the printer kind. but im forgetting that the voltage on the tone generator, huh? well i need ideas, i was thinking a printer cable becase they are shield cables. what would you suggest? thanks,</P>


nemo</P>
<P mce_keep="true">[/quote]</P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>I would suggest not chopping a spinet or keeping in one piece post chop.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I know your whole point is to split it to make more manageable but those spinet are a pain to chop.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Especially if you want to retain the pedal functions.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I have seen organs get noisy and sound real crappy after being chopped.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Either something doesn’t get done right or a wacky hum loop gets created.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I really don’t think you will be gaining much functional benefit in splitting the organ into pieces.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN>The generator section is still going to be heavy.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The manuals are going to still be pain to handle.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The main benefit will transport space not handling and moving the organ.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I always thought a whole intact organ was easier to handle than most chops, but that is just me. </FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3></FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">You realize there are things in that organ that can knock the beejeebees out of you even with it shut off and unplugged.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I don’t anything about the M3 but there are capacitors that store lethal charges long after being unplugged.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If you don’t know how to safelydischarge capacitorsI would mess not with rewiring an electronic organ.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">But that is just me. I am a big old chicken.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
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[Brendon Wright]

Re: '63 hammond M3 organ chop..help please!



Heh, I even got a good number of nasty jolts from the flash capacitor in our broken digital camera!</P>


Flinched so many times it hurt my neck!</P>


Nemo did mention the case was pretty much "poked" though.</P>


The real test is if it will fit in the back of the Jalopy though!</P>


My DIY leslie is going to be a problem to fit in the car if I chop my own organ... hadn't thought about measuring the car!</P>


Cheers!</P>


-Brendoon</P>

[Brendon Wright]

Re: '63 hammond M3 organ chop..help please!



D'OH!</P>


Gotta be careful of unintentional double entendres. eh!</P>


'Pologies about that last sentence on the previous post.</P>
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On the other side of things, RedOctober here has a trashed M3 he's making a "portable" out of.</P>


I think I have heard somewhere about Computer cables being used, but I also don't recommend separating the TG form the manuals.</P>


The standard Chop, while very heavy, has virtually everything inside the top, bar the pedals and swell... and had handles etc to carry it.</P>


They will quite often close up into a Road-case-likebox so the will fit onto a trolley etc...</P>


I reckon I have a picture of a Goff chop here somewhere... likeDon Airey (from Deep Purple)'s choppedA100:</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>
<P mce_keep="true"><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; WHITE-SPACE: pre; FONT-SIZE: 13px" class=Apple-style-span></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P mce_keep="true"><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; WHITE-SPACE: pre; FONT-SIZE: 13px" class=Apple-style-span>A spinet chop, though, might have the amp mounted on its side rather than on it's base, there being lee room behind the TG.</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P mce_keep="true"><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; WHITE-SPACE: pre; FONT-SIZE: 13px" class=Apple-style-span>This Goff one is quite BIG.</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P mce_keep="true"><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; WHITE-SPACE: pre; FONT-SIZE: 13px" class=Apple-style-span>You can actually even separate the M into a top and a bottom, clamping them back together later.</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P mce_keep="true"><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; WHITE-SPACE: pre; FONT-SIZE: 13px" class=Apple-style-span>Check out this RetroKeys A100 build:</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P mce_keep="true"><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; WHITE-SPACE: pre; FONT-SIZE: 13px" class=Apple-style-span>http://www.retrokeys.co.uk/blacka100.html</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P mce_keep="true"><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; WHITE-SPACE: pre; FONT-SIZE: 13px" class=Apple-style-span>I'd better go!</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P mce_keep="true"><SPAN style="WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium 'Times New Roman'; WHITE-SPACE: normal; ORPHANS: 2; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class=Apple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; WHITE-SPACE: pre; FONT-SIZE: 13px" class=Apple-style-span>-Brendoon</SPAN></SPAN></P>

[redoctoberff]

Re: '63 hammond M3 organ chop..help please!



I would side with CEB in at least that separating it into pieces is really not going to be worth your time. I don't think you have to worry about voltages--the capacitors would stay under the amp, and the only thing carrying high voltage would be the power cord--but separating the tone generator from the manuals would be a massive pain. Keep in mind there's a bundle of maybe 70 wires from the tone generator that go to BOTH manuals. Plus you'd be relying on your own soldering skills--I don't know if they're good or bad, but I am not great with a soldering iron yet and thus try to rewire my own Hammond as little as possible even with mods. The originals have lasted half a century or more--that's a pretty substantial guarantee of their quality. Those tone generator connections would be a pain to fix if they started breaking off. Personally, I have thought about using printer cables to use with the pedals, but that's 12 connections we're talking about, and I was uncertain how worth it even that would be.</p>

I do, however, think chopping it in one piece is a great idea. As Brendon said I am working on my own M chop (it's an M, not an M3, so I'm adding percussion with an M3 amp as well) which I built a new cabinet for. You can see pictures of it and the process (removing the manuals is horrible and not fun) here: http://s679.photobucket.com/albums/vv156/redoctoberff2/ They start (end really, cause they're in reverse order) halfway down that page and you can see the rest on the second and third pages. I'm really bad at creating albums so they're all in the same one. The first few pictures you'll see are of the horn assembly I built for my DIY Leslie.</p>

I've seen a lot of M3 chops but very few do what you're suggesting, simply because it's a pain and not worth the effort. I tried to keep my case as shallow as possible--only a few inches deeper than the original M cabinet--to make sure it would fit through doors, but if you're okay with turning it on its side (i.e. everything secured, which it should be) you can make it eight inches or so deeper and stick the amp behind the tone generator, keeping it right side up. I'm going to put mine upside down like on the A100, but we'll have to wait and see how well that works, I haven't put it all together yet.</p>

Likewise, if you want the dimensions I used I'd be happy to supply them, but I want to get the whole thing together and working before I do that. Wouldn't be much point in giving you bad/untested numbers.</p>

Anyway, congrats on the M3, they are great organs and for $5 you got a great deal. Being a chopper myself (at least once) I think that's almost better than finding a mint one because you don't have to feel bad in chopping the case. (Lots of people actually have chops cut off 1" below the generator shelf, so it's just the top half of the cabinet, and add handles. This is a simple approach that makes it equally portable.) I have a really nice condition M3 that I could never bring myself to cut up, so I had to wait for a trashed M (you'll see it on my photobucket page) and even then I had to build a new case rather than cutting up the original, bad shape as it was in. Chopping this way will be a lot of work but in the end you'll have a great sounding Hammond that you can bring to shows, which is pretty exciting. And saving it from the dumpster is always gratifying. My M was also going to be trashed if I hadn't saved it.
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[Guest]

Re: '63 hammond M3 organ chop..help please!

&gt;&gt;&gt;<font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="">I am a big old chicken.</span></font></font>


I work with high voltages regularly and I say the only way you get to be a old chicken is by being a chicken!
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[manic organic]

Re: '63 hammond M3 organ chop..help please!



--double post--</P>

[manic organic]

Re: '63 hammond M3 organ chop..help please!



I chopped my 1960 Hammond M3. It took only a few hours, but I planned for it for weeks. Having a friend help you when you are actually"cutting" the bottom off really helps, too. I'm in a band so I have no use for the pedals. I also installed a pre-made1/4" output, re-tubed the amplifier, and added a little Hammond oil. </P>


As you can see, I mounted the amp with threaded rodsattached to a couple of boltsthrough the top, and a block of wood on the left. Yeah, the amp is crooked, but the organ sounds great! I'll get some longer threaded rod at some point. It woerks for now. I've gigged out weekly with it since September, and it's never given me a problem...except for an outdoor show where the generator wasn't set to 60 Hz. It alsofits into the back of my compact sedan. </P>


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[Brendon Wright]

Re: '63 hammond M3 organ chop..help please!



Ooh!</p>

Delicious!</p>

I'll save that pic for my files!</p>

Thanks, ManicOrganic.</p>

What kind of stand have you used here?</p>

Cheers!</p>

-Brendoon</p>

[manic organic]

Re: '63 hammond M3 organ chop..help please!



Thanks, Brendon! The stand will hold 500 lbs. and the 3rd review features someone already using this stand for their M3 so I figured it would work. It does! It's a very heavy duty stand at a great price!</P>


http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-MUS-KS7350-LIST</P>

[bourniplus]

Re: '63 hammond M3 organ chop..help please!



Hi nemo and welcome on the forum!</p>

do you have a van or pickup you can use to move the M3? If so, I would definitely forget about the chop. If the idea is to fit it into a car, then... maybe. As some people say, moving a complete organ can be easier and faster than moving a chop when you are well prepared, even for one person. Also those three or four pieces would still be heavy and hard to carry for one person.</p>

Here's an idea for an alternative:</p>

-if you don't use the pedals, you could remove them and add a connector if you want to use them later. You say you don't have much experience with electronics, this would be a simple/safe way to start. That will remove quite a few pounds. </p>

-Also, if you really want to keep the speaker you could build a separate enclosure for it. That's more weight that you won't have to carry with the organ.</p>

-If the cabinet is really beat up, you could remove the whole part that makes the front of the organ (might require compensating the structure to keep it sturdy), giving it more of a C3 look. Still no need to mess with electronics, swell pedal, etc... </p>

And finally if you do chop it, those steps will already be done anyway.</p>

Good luck!</p>

Martin
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