Forum Top Banner Ad

Collapse

Ebay Classic organs

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Need some hammond advice

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Need some hammond advice

    Hello people,

    Im looking to buy a hammond organ. I bought one a last year and I've been enjoying it since. The type I have now is pretty basic and only has a 13 drawbars of wich there are only 9 for the upper manual. The sound is nice but i'm missing that real hammond sound and there aren't many variations on the sound. I'm looking for some advice about some good types that aren't as expensive as a b3 or something. My budget isn't that great. About 900 euro (1180 dollars) or less. I'm looking for a organ that can be used to play in a band. Playing some blues or The Doors, Deep Purple, Ray Charles etc.

    I would very much appreciate the help,


    Greetings from The Netherlands,

    Sjoerd
    SjoerdHammond channel with great Hammond jams: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmx...WuqqCbvtj-ktNA

    1960 Hammond A-100
    1964 Leslie 251
    2013 Hammond SK1-73

  • #2
    Which organ did you get? M3, m100, L100 all have the drawbar configuration you mentioned and are quite suitable for playing in a rock band with a bass player.

    If you want bigger, look for b3, c3, a100. If you have electronics skills, bc, bv, e100, c2, b2 can all be modified to be suitable.

    All that said, if you are playing an M3, m100 or l100 right now and are not satisfied with the sound......I bet you do not have a proper Leslie speaker attached! The Leslie is as important as the organ IMHO.

    Wes

    Comment


    • #3
      Wes, I have 17 drawbars on my L102 and the lower manual has no subtonics. The pedal is combined into 1 bar instead of 2. So counting the missing bars on this model the M100 series should have 20. The console models quite often had two sets of nine for each manual as you mention. The shortest jump to a Leslie (saving the large cabinet investment since budget concerns are mentioned) would be the J series which is tonewheel with Leslie onboard. Since he mentions a band that would be easier to gig also.

      Comment


      • #4
        Warm welcome to the forum, Sjoerd.

        The sound that you are seeking is not going to be a function of drawbars. All of the older consoles, A,B,C,D,E,RT...all have 9 drawbars per manual.
        Differences in sounds between models are functions of manual wiring, TG design, preamp, among other things.
        The later models such as the H series have additional drawbars per manual, but interestingly those models are largely shunned by Hammond folks.

        The sound you hear on recordings are a function of both the organ and the Leslie.

        I do not have a clue as to what the market is like in your area, but the closest thing you will get to the sound you percieve for a reasonable price will be an A100. It has the same internals as the B3 but in a smaller cabinet, with the bonus of a self contained amp and speaker system. A C3 is also an option...again the same internals as the B3, but in a larger (although not much heavier) cabinet.
        Either of these would have to be coupled to a Leslie for "that sound".

        For road trips, many prefer the M3 (sometimes referred to the "Baby B3). With some keyboard modifications, it can sound quite good...again, when coupled to a Leslie. Listen to Booker T "Time is Tight" also, Billy Preston played an M3 for the Beatles "Get Back"...there are many more. Keith Emerson abuses an L100 quite regularly.

        Hope this helps.

        Bob
        In theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.
        In reality, there is.
        '54 C-2 & Pair of 122 Leslies
        H-324/Series 10 TC
        '35 Model A (Serial# 41) with a 21H
        Look at some of my rescues:
        https://www.flickr.com/photos/58226398@N03/albums

        Comment


        • #5
          13 drawbars usually indicates an LSI Hammond with 9 regular drawbars for the upper and 4 yellow and green 'hum and buzz' drawbars for the lower. The upper has exactly the same number of drawbar combinations as any other drawbar Hammond apart from the X series, so the 253 million combinations that Hammond always used to quote should be enough!

          If you want to play in a band, then, as has already been said, you need a real Hammond with tonewheels like the ones mentioned and, yes, you need an external leslie. Your LSI model no doubt has one built in but it's not the same.

          Don't forget the T series, as they are supremely modd-able. www.keyboardpartner.de has the info and the T's are still cheap. However, once you cross the channel from the UK to the Continent, the prices go up. Next time you come to the UK you could have a holiday and pick up a Hammond for less than you'd pay in Europe. :)
          It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

          New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

          Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
          Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
          Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
          Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Wes View Post
            Which organ did you get? M3, m100, L100 all have the drawbar configuration you mentioned and are quite suitable for playing in a rock band with a bass player.

            If you want bigger, look for b3, c3, a100. If you have electronics skills, bc, bv, e100, c2, b2 can all be modified to be suitable.

            All that said, if you are playing an M3, m100 or l100 right now and are not satisfied with the sound......I bet you do not have a proper Leslie speaker attached! The Leslie is as important as the organ IMHO.

            Wes
            I'll take a look at those types. I don't really know what kind of hammond i've got. It's a really basic one with no original manual or anything. I've got it from some old people who didn't really know anything about the thing. I think it's a 8022.
            SjoerdHammond channel with great Hammond jams: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmx...WuqqCbvtj-ktNA

            1960 Hammond A-100
            1964 Leslie 251
            2013 Hammond SK1-73

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Bobmann View Post
              Warm welcome to the forum, Sjoerd.

              The sound that you are seeking is not going to be a function of drawbars. All of the older consoles, A,B,C,D,E,RT...all have 9 drawbars per manual.
              Differences in sounds between models are functions of manual wiring, TG design, preamp, among other things.
              The later models such as the H series have additional drawbars per manual, but interestingly those models are largely shunned by Hammond folks.

              The sound you hear on recordings are a function of both the organ and the Leslie.

              I do not have a clue as to what the market is like in your area, but the closest thing you will get to the sound you percieve for a reasonable price will be an A100. It has the same internals as the B3 but in a smaller cabinet, with the bonus of a self contained amp and speaker system. A C3 is also an option...again the same internals as the B3, but in a larger (although not much heavier) cabinet.
              Either of these would have to be coupled to a Leslie for "that sound".

              For road trips, many prefer the M3 (sometimes referred to the "Baby B3). With some keyboard modifications, it can sound quite good...again, when coupled to a Leslie. Listen to Booker T "Time is Tight" also, Billy Preston played an M3 for the Beatles "Get Back"...there are many more. Keith Emerson abuses an L100 quite regularly.

              Hope this helps.

              Bob
              hey Bob,

              thanks for the reply.
              really helpfull.

              I will definitly take a look at those models. I found out that i've got a 8022 right now. There isn't really a big market for hammond in my country. One of the only places where I can buy them is on a online marketplace like ebay. but they only sell about 20 of them with almost none of them those models. I think importing from another country isn't a option so i i'll have to deal with it...
              SjoerdHammond channel with great Hammond jams: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmx...WuqqCbvtj-ktNA

              1960 Hammond A-100
              1964 Leslie 251
              2013 Hammond SK1-73

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bobmann View Post
                Warm welcome to the forum, Sjoerd.

                The sound that you are seeking is not going to be a function of drawbars. All of the older consoles, A,B,C,D,E,RT...all have 9 drawbars per manual.
                Differences in sounds between models are functions of manual wiring, TG design, preamp, among other things.
                The later models such as the H series have additional drawbars per manual, but interestingly those models are largely shunned by Hammond folks.

                The sound you hear on recordings are a function of both the organ and the Leslie.

                I do not have a clue as to what the market is like in your area, but the closest thing you will get to the sound you percieve for a reasonable price will be an A100. It has the same internals as the B3 but in a smaller cabinet, with the bonus of a self contained amp and speaker system. A C3 is also an option...again the same internals as the B3, but in a larger (although not much heavier) cabinet.
                Either of these would have to be coupled to a Leslie for "that sound".

                For road trips, many prefer the M3 (sometimes referred to the "Baby B3). With some keyboard modifications, it can sound quite good...again, when coupled to a Leslie. Listen to Booker T "Time is Tight" also, Billy Preston played an M3 for the Beatles "Get Back"...there are many more. Keith Emerson abuses an L100 quite regularly.

                Hope this helps.

                Bob
                Hey bob,

                I really like the a100. And there are a couple of people who sell them. So what is a reasonable price for one of them? not to high not to low for a used second (or more) hand?
                SjoerdHammond channel with great Hammond jams: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmx...WuqqCbvtj-ktNA

                1960 Hammond A-100
                1964 Leslie 251
                2013 Hammond SK1-73

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by sjoerd1234 View Post
                  hey Bob,

                  thanks for the reply.
                  really helpfull.

                  I will definitly take a look at those models. I found out that i've got a 8022 right now. There isn't really a big market for hammond in my country. One of the only places where I can buy them is on a online marketplace like ebay. but they only sell about 20 of them with almost none of them those models. I think importing from another country isn't a option so i i'll have to deal with it...
                  Hi. The dutch market is probably very similar to the danish market. You have to search something like the dutch ebay (or belgian or german ebay perhaps?). The most common tonewheel models in our part of the world is the L100, P100, T100- to 500, M100, within your budget. You will also find the consoles, but they will likely be too expensive, though I was able to pick up a nice E-100 at a price within your budget. Currently I have spotted sales for models D-100, BC, C3, A-100, M3 and even a very clean RT-3 here. Also recently both an R-100 and E-100 popped up.

                  /Frank
                  http://www.etcetera-music.eu/public/...2/t522page.htm

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I cannot speculate what a fair price will be in your area.
                    Hopefully there are some people with experience will add opinions.

                    I have gotten several organs by scouring the estate sales. Craigs List is the other place I find them. I have not had much luck with Ebay, as there is a lot of competition.
                    Perhaps there is a similar free want ads or listings of estate or "yard" sales where you are.
                    It is all about timing and luck...right place at the tight time.

                    Just remember that not all of the Hammond models will give you the same sound you may have in your mind.
                    You will need to listen first to see if you will be happy with it.
                    Some can be made to sound differently with modification...some easier than others. It depends on your capabilities and comfort level with electronics.
                    Also, of all the consoles, the A100 will be the most compact, if moving this around is a requirement.

                    Bob
                    In theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.
                    In reality, there is.
                    '54 C-2 & Pair of 122 Leslies
                    H-324/Series 10 TC
                    '35 Model A (Serial# 41) with a 21H
                    Look at some of my rescues:
                    https://www.flickr.com/photos/58226398@N03/albums

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bobmann View Post
                      I cannot speculate what a fair price will be in your area.
                      Hopefully there are some people with experience will add opinions.
                      Prices for spinets are reasonable here. They were sold in large numbers to private homes. T-series organs are particularly cheap, frequently at $150-300 and I've seen lower prices.
                      Consoles on the other hand is a different story. In the US, consoles were sold in large quantities to churches, and I suppose to private homes as well. This is not the case in Northern Europe, where churches always have pipe organs. So consoles were only sold for high end private users or professional musicians, making them much more scarce here. As a consequence consoles, like A-100, C3 and B3 go at about $4-6000, unless you are really lucky. In light of this, I was really lucky to score my E-100 at $800.

                      /Frank
                      http://www.etcetera-music.eu/public/...2/t522page.htm

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        OrgansR4Me, an organist in a rock or R&B band with a bass player does not use the pedal clavier 99.999% of the time. Thus the number of pedal drawbars is irrelevant for this user. A similar argument can be made for excluding the sub-fundamental drawbars on the great manual, as was done all spinet models.

                        I do not buy the idea that two sets of drawbars per manual are required for performing -- especially when you have smooth drawbars -- and I certainly do not believe that a console organ is a requirement for a working rock musician. Guys like Rick Wright (M100 Pink Floyd), Keith Emerson (L100 The Nice), Booker T. Jones (M3 on Green Onions), Matthew Fisher (M102 on A Whiter Shade of Pale) managed to make perfectly acceptable music with spinets.

                        The J series is not a tonewheel model, it does not have drawbars, and I'm pretty sure it does not include a Leslie. The T series (except for T100) have tonewheels and internal Leslies, but I would argue that the that internal Leslie is insufficient for a working rock musician...

                        He has a 900 Euro budget. IMHO he should be looking for a good Leslie and spending whatever's left on an organ. It's possible that he might find an A100 with a Leslie 147 for that money, but I think it's unlikely given prices I have seen quoted in here and elsewhere over the last couple of years...organs seem to be more expensive in Europe than the US. A more realistic target is a Leslie 147, 122, 251, 142, 145, 760, or 860 along with an M3, M100, or L100. Or maybe even a T-series or E-series console.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Just to add to Wes' comment. I've had a 3 series console for nearly five years. Today I played my new M102 for the first time and am absolutely blown away by it. It's different in some respects but the L/M/T spinets (I've also owned L/T in the past) through a twin rotor Leslie are perfectly adequate for a performing musician.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tonewheel1966 View Post
                            Just to add to Wes' comment. I've had a 3 series console for nearly five years. Today I played my new M102 for the first time and am absolutely blown away by it. It's different in some respects but the L/M/T spinets (I've also owned L/T in the past) through a twin rotor Leslie are perfectly adequate for a performing musician.
                            I totally agree. I have a T500 and an E100 and used to own an L100. I sold the L100 when I got the T500 because one had to go. The only reason I let the L100 go was because I just love the sound of a scanner vibrato. But I felt absolutely no performance limitiations with only one set of drawbars per manual on the L100. With the T500 had to give up valve amplification in favour of the scanner vibrato. But the T500 is a great organ, and totally sufficient for good rock organ playing. The best buy rock Hammond out there right now.

                            /Frank
                            http://www.etcetera-music.eu/public/...2/t522page.htm

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              For an organ that is staying in a rehearsal space, for the money the H100 is a great choice. You get more draw bars, more pedal draw bars. It has a tube amplifier, it has a very awesome celeste scanner. The vibrato is very good. The key percussion is actually more versatile than a B/C/A100/M3... it has repeat percussion.

                              You can't go wrong with a T,L, or M100. The T500 has more flexibility than the lower numbered models, but might be prone to more problems. The M100 is a full on traditional B/C/A100 , but with less keys and pedals. Basically a spinet version of an A100. The M100 has a full, rich sound that for classical and jazz is a great choice. As has already been mentioned, for progressive rock the M100 or the L100 will do fine. Personally I prefer the less dark sound of the L100. One might say 'cheaper' quality, but I prefer to say it is a friendlier sounding organ. The T400 is probably the spinet I'd most prefer if in a band. It has a built in Leslie and it is not a huge organ. The vibrato is wonderful on the T400 and it has a headphone output that can serve as a line-out. This is probably true for the other T's as well?

                              If you can ever find a Hammond S6 grab it! These aren't the traditional Hammond sound, but they are very versatile.

                              Glad you are seeking out a real Hammond and not a clone.
                              Wurlitzer '46' Model 31 Orgatron & 310 rotary cab, 56' 4410 , 65' 4300
                              Hammond '55' S6 Chord Organ,HR-40,ER-20, 1971 X66/& 12-77 tone cabinet w/ 122 kit & TREK Transposer- of which I've retrofitted a Wurlitzer/Lowrey 'PedAL gLIdE' awesome!
                              Gulbransen 61' 1132 '76' Rialto II & Leslie 705 + two 540
                              Conn '57' 406 Caprice '59' 815 Classic (the 29th 815)
                              PLEASE SAVE THE WURLITZER ELECTROSTATIC CONTINUOUS-FREE-REED ORGANS 1953'-1961' Hammond TW's ONLY TRUE COMPETITOR! (Ggl> NSHOS WURLI 4600)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X