Hammond Xk5 -are non Hammond sounds available yet?

[Spumoni]

I'm thinking about replacing my Nord 5D with the Xk5. Although I use the Nord primarily for tone wheel sounds, I do like the typical clav, Vox and EP sounds that Nord does so well. I remember when I was on the waiting list for the Xk5, Hammond couldn't confirm when the other sounds would be available so I cancelled my order. I still am not able to get confirmation these sounds are available. I'm aware of the new SKX, and all the sounds, but I really prefer the Xk5 for all the obvious reasons.

Does anyone have any idea if and when these (non Hammond) sounds will be available for the Xk5, and would they be as good as the sounds in the SKX?

Thanks in advance!

[JJMcS]

I doubt the XK-5 will ever have additional sounds added. The XK-3 and XK-3c had a few hidden extra voices that could be turned on by pressing a combination of buttons. These sounds weren't considered to be high quality although some of that could have been due to the difficulty in hitting keys hard enough to generate a high velocity value. To date I haven't heard of anyone trying either the button combination that works in the XK-3/c or any other combination in an attempt to find hidden voices in the XK-5.

[flapper]

I doubt the XK-5 will ever have additional sounds added. The XK-3 and XK-3c had a few hidden extra voices that could be turned on by pressing a combination of buttons. These sounds weren't considered to be high quality although some of that could have been due to the difficulty in hitting keys hard enough to generate a high velocity value. To date I haven't heard of anyone trying either the button combination that works in the XK-3/c or any other combination in an attempt to find hidden voices in the XK-5.

I hadn't heard that the XK-3 had additional sounds. Does anyone know what combination of buttons will access them?

[JJMcS]

Here you go:

These are documents I copied from the Hammond XK_3 Yahoo group. IIRC, you have to do the three button process each time on the XK-3. Good Luck.

How to turn on the extra voices
and assign them the user
Button.

Step 1 first hold down the three keys labeled
Brake+Control and Tone.
While holding down these three keys turn
On the Xk3c when It starts you can release
them.

Step 2 Now press menu and then select menu item
#4 by pressing the #4 button which is control.

Step 3
Then scroll up using the arrow keys to the page labeled “User” it’s the next to the last page now assign the extra voices to the user button by turning the control knob until it says extra voices now when you restart you will
not have to press the three buttons again to activate
the extra voices you can just press the user button
to access them at any time now you can press play to exit the setup menu and your all done.


Note: If you reset your XK3c you will need to do this
again as the XK3c will be reset to its factory defaults.



On the '3c you can set the control key to call up that page so you don't have to do the 3 finger salute each time. Also, you can set the demo button to toggle the EV on and off.

The default volume setting seems to be 100 so it can be turned up more in the menu. On the '3c the EV can play along with the organ tones so you can add a few drawbars to fill out the tone and/or use percussion to give the sound a little more pop. Another thing the '3c has is a Upper/Lower selection. At first this seemed to only work with the split keyboard on the XK-3c. I found out today that the lower manual selection can work with an additional keyboard. If you connect another controller keyboard to the '3c that sends on channel one it will play the extra voices while the '3c plays the upper manual organ and if you have the System lower manual (sending on channel 2) it will play the lower manual organ. You can actually have three manuals, 2 organ and 1 piano type controller along with the pedals.

Something else I figured out today is that the XK-3c's velocity values when the EV's are turned on seem to be somewhat lower than when they are not. When they are on I have a hard time hitting the keys fast enough to get a value as high as 100 no matter which velocity setting I have selected. With the EV off I can get a higher value but still not near 127. There are a lot of high frequency harmonics and what sounds like the mechanical aspects of the hammer strike or the tines plucked etc. that can only be heard with a high velocity value. I used the XK-3 keyboard as the third controller for the '3c and had my computer/MIDI mapper increase the velocity value by 20% and it made a big difference in the tone of the 3 EP's and the 2 Clav's. The tone was less muddled and seemed to have more "life". The increased velocity didn't have as much effect on the Vibes and 2 Synths. I have an old Fatar/StudioLogic controller that I may try to connect to see how that works. The velocity setting on both the sending keyboard and the '3c have an effect on the attack harmonics and overall tone and volume of the sound.

The older version of the software (I have 1.003) has the C/V functional for the EV's. Each of the buttons seem to affect the tone a little as does the position of the selector knob. I'm not sure if each C/V selection has its own effect or just whether a C or V is selected. Also, the pitch wheel works.

[OneWatt]

I'm thinking about replacing my Nord 5D with the Xk5. Although I use the Nord primarily for tone wheel sounds, I do like the typical clav, Vox and EP sounds that Nord does so well. I remember when I was on the waiting list for the Xk5, Hammond couldn't confirm when the other sounds would be available so I cancelled my order. I still am not able to get confirmation these sounds are available. I'm aware of the new SKX, and all the sounds, but I really prefer the Xk5 for all the obvious reasons.

Does anyone have any idea if and when these (non Hammond) sounds will be available for the Xk5, and would they be as good as the sounds in the SKX?

Thanks in advance!

Spumoni -

Assuming for the moment that the XK5 will never have (decent) additional non-organ voices, have you considered getting an external sound module and using the XK5 to drive it via external zone midi? The implementation is excellent (I do this with an XK3c, dual manual + pedals) including having set up a VPO.

I use a number of legacy sounds modules (Yamaha Motif Rack, Roland XV-2020, XV-5080) and they all sound excellent - EPs, synths, strings, etc., rivaling whatever I've found in a dedicated keyboard.

If you're a gigging musician one of these would be extremely portable (more so than the XK5) and just as reliable. And if you're just playing in a home studio, there plenty of hardware and virtual instruments you could connect through your DAW.

In short, I wouldn't let the lack of additional voices inside the XK5 stop you.

YMMV - OneWatt

[Spumoni]

Hello OneWatt - you make a very valid point. I'm definitely not a gigging musician, but I like the simplicity of one board. I guess I have to decide if I want to go with the sound module and XK5 route, or just keep the Nord. Another option is to replace the Nord with the new SKX. But I just love the idea of that tube preamp... and the simulated key contact thing. I wonder if the keys on the SKX will feel as good as the XK5?

Thank you all for the info / advice.

[OneWatt]

Hello OneWatt - you make a very valid point. I'm definitely not a gigging musician, but I like the simplicity of one board. I guess I have to decide if I want to go with the sound module and XK5 route, or just keep the Nord. Another option is to replace the Nord with the new SKX. But I just love the idea of that tube preamp... and the simulated key contact thing. I wonder if the keys on the SKX will feel as good as the XK5?

Thank you all for the info / advice.

I appreciate the one-keyboard-to-rule-them-all concept ;) But it's a bit of a holy grail, since you really wouldn't want to use a Hammond waterfall keyboard action to produce dynamic ppp to fff acoustic piano sounds, or even necessarily a vintage EP ... there are different input devices for different instruments for a reason.

Try playing a string patch on a harpsichord's plucky keybed (other than pizzicato), or Hammond organ on an acoustic piano hammer-weighted MIDI controller. It's all possible in this age of digital virtual instruments... but not particularly enjoyable (or expressive).

FWIW, if money is a consideration, you might find that an XK3c makes for a much more affordable Hammond sound (tube amp, same primary features and tweakability to the nth degree), with really only one major difference in terms of keybed - i.e., those new 9-point contact keys. On that score, while I'd certainly love to have an XK5 (who wouldn't?!), I have to say that I have never felt that the key feel or control with the XK3c is lacking in any way. On the contrary, it sure feels great to me.

To be blunt, I would certainly swap my XK3c for a newly-released XK5 any day... but not if it cost me another $1k or so. This is just one guy's perspective of course. OTOH, if money is no object, go for it!

But even then, don't expect that what is simply perfect for simulating an original B3 or C3 is also going to be perfect for making lots of other sounds that have nothing to do with the unique idiosynchrasies of the Hammond universe. To try to cram all of that into a single box requires more compromises than you'd ever be happy with over time. In the end, none of the "instruments" would be enjoyable to play.

Hope some of this gets you thinking about trade-offs and your own musical priorities. Happy hunting! - OneWatt

[Spumoni]

Another good point indeed! I currently have a Korg SV-1 which is great for EP sounds. I was mainly looking to replace my Nord which I am primarily using for Hammond sounds, but occasionally use Vox and clav sounds too. Maybe the new SKX is the way to go?

I'm wondering if the non hammond sounds on the SKX would compare to the Nord, and I'm wondering how the keys on the SKX would compare to the XK5....

[JJMcS]

This is from the XK-5 info on the Hammond website:

Completely Redesigned Key-bed: The XK-5’s keyboard action is built in-house, not sourced from a third-party manufacturer. It was designed to duplicate the heft, bounce, and key dip of a “new old stock” and well-maintained B-3™: No springy synth keys allowed! Master Hammond players who tested early prototypes confirmed that nothing comes closer to the feel and response they expect from a Vintage Hammond. Of course it has the “waterfall” key fronts critical to Hammond playing techniques such as palm slides and glissandos. Play the XK-5 alongside any other modern organ and we’re convinced you’ll find the difference stunning. Play the Xk-5 alongside a vintage Hammond and we’re convinced you’ll find the similarity stunning.


The earlier SK models use a Fatar keybed. I don't know if that has changed.

[OneWatt]

This is from the XK-5 info on the Hammond website:

Completely Redesigned Key-bed: The XK-5’s keyboard action is built in-house, not sourced from a third-party manufacturer. It was designed to duplicate the heft, bounce, and key dip of a “new old stock” and well-maintained B-3™: No springy synth keys allowed! Master Hammond players who tested early prototypes confirmed that nothing comes closer to the feel and response they expect from a Vintage Hammond. Of course it has the “waterfall” key fronts critical to Hammond playing techniques such as palm slides and glissandos. Play the XK-5 alongside any other modern organ and we’re convinced you’ll find the difference stunning. Play the Xk-5 alongside a vintage Hammond and we’re convinced you’ll find the similarity stunning.


The earlier SK models use a Fatar keybed. I don't know if that has changed.

JJMcS -

Thanks for sharing this clip re: the XK5's keyboard. I'd really love to try it but I don't think there's any of these units anywhere around here.

No doubt the XK5 keys are the closest to the real deal a "clone" has yet to get (even one by Hammond).

Since I haven't laid my hands on an XK5 I can only say that the XK3c keybed (made by s-o-m-e-b-o-d-y?) feels great, and those palm slides and glissandos are no problem ;) Having said that, I've never felt that it was lacking in any regard, but I'm not one to try to very slowly depress a key to get different tonewheels to trigger separately ... that's probably where the difference lies.

Regards - OneWatt

[JJMcS]

The XK-3/c keybeds are the same as those in the New B3 except for the electronics for the 9 key contacts. I was told they are made for Hammond by a company that makes the keybeds for their own high end pianos. Unfortunately I don't have the name of that company.

[flapper]

Thank you very much! I bought my XK-3 shortly after they came out and never knew about this.

[enor]

This is from the XK-5 info on the Hammond website:

Completely Redesigned Key-bed: The XK-5’s keyboard action is built in-house, not sourced from a third-party manufacturer. It was designed to duplicate the heft, bounce, and key dip of a “new old stock” and well-maintained B-3™: No springy synth keys allowed! Master Hammond players who tested early prototypes confirmed that nothing comes closer to the feel and response they expect from a Vintage Hammond. Of course it has the “waterfall” key fronts critical to Hammond playing techniques such as palm slides and glissandos. Play the XK-5 alongside any other modern organ and we’re convinced you’ll find the difference stunning. Play the Xk-5 alongside a vintage Hammond and we’re convinced you’ll find the similarity stunning.


The earlier SK models use a Fatar keybed. I don't know if that has changed.

Does this mean that _finally_ Hammond is making a keybead with a similarly long fulcrum point, as in the older models? If not, the above is still just talk...

[geoelectro]

I haven't taken one (XK5) apart yet but have played one a couple of times. The feel is noticeably different. I was very surprised how well it plays. I suspect the fulcrum has been changed. The sound is also improved. I played it through a Leslie 771 in a church and found it very convincing and fun to play. The action is lighter than the XK3 and felt closer to a tonewheeler type. If you get a chance, try one out.

Geo

[JJMcS]

I don't know about the length of the keys, they probably aren't as long as the original B3. Here is what these guys said about the XK-5 on the Hammond info page:

“The feel of the keyboard, it kicks back at you. It’s not dead, and it feels good. See, that’s what we’re looking for!”
– Dr. Lonnie Smith, legendary jazz organist
“It’s like the feel of what I imagine it must have been like in 1968
when you put your hands on a brand new one. It feels great.”
– Chuck Leavell

There is more information here:

http://hammondorganco.com/products/portable-organs/xk5/