M-100 vibrato tabs

[martin62]

In my M-100 manual I read that both Celeste tabs (1 + 2) are switched off automatically when Chorus tab is switched on. Like this Celeste and Chorus can never be used at once.

On my organ however I can switch on the Chorus tab and the Celeste 1 tab at once. Not until I switch on Celeste 2 the Chorus tab is released.

Is this an issue on my organ or a misunderstanding of the manual?

I describe the relevant settings as followed:

1. All tabs off = strongest vibrato (celeste effect?)
2. Celeste I = hardly noticeable difference to 1. Seems that the effect sound a little bit less pronounced.
3. Celeste II = less pronounced than 2.
4. Celeste I + II = again hardly noticeable difference to 3 (but there is one).
5. Chorus + Celeste 1 = seems to decrease the chorus effect a little bit. Similar to what happens to the celeste effect from 1. to 2. now happens here to the chorus effect.

It seems to me that Celeste I is the tab that causes the slightest change in sound of all the vibrato tabs.

Finally my question: Everything ok about these tabs on my M-100 or is there an issue with the Celeste I?

Martin

[Sweet Pete]

Engaging Vibrato chorus tab should cancel both Celeste tabs,either individually or together! Both of mine work correctly,M102 and M111.
There is a brass 'pusher' tab with standoffs for this function on the back of the assembly that is out of place,would be my educated guess.
Fixing them is a royal PITA so I'd look around for another one,E-bay is your friend......have a look,maybe you can pop it back into place.
I have the same issue with an L100 upper manual presets tab cluster.Forget fixing it,I'm getting a replacement for 10 dollars or so.
The 'cancel' pushers often get dislodged when old and dry.

Once I played an M100 that had the same issue as yours.The owner liked it 'broken' better.It offered more selections than a 'good' one.
You could engage chorus while celeste was engaged!

One of my all time favorite chorus vibrato sounds is the M100 with both Celeste tabs engaged 'half way' down! Killer tremelo,spot on Leslie 'fast'!
None of my full size consoles will do this!

[martin62]

Hi Sweet Pete

Thank you for this information. I don't understand if this is just a mechanical issue or if it also impacts the sound. Can you confirm the changes of the sound I described 1. to 5. ? I think the broken switch Celeste I is also electrically out of order, because it changes the sound subtly when pressed down.

Martin

[Sweet Pete]

Without audio I can only tell you that setting 5 is unavailable on my M100's!

M100 schematics show celeste tabs have another resistor network.
IIRC the first celeste tab does 'half' this network,and the celeste 2 tab doubles the feedback.
Also,you should be able to get variable chorus without the celeste engaged, by engaging the chorus tab half way down.

[martin62]

Ok, thank you very much.

[Sweet Pete]

A vibrato tab assembly from a known working M100 would be the quickest easiest troubleshooting if I were living in Switzerland!
Least intrusive way to compare the two IMO.
Shoot some video of the cam operation of your non cancelling switches and post for us.Maybe someone will have a look at a good one.
Mine aren't within reach at the moment to look .Would be happy to look at a video of yours and hear what it's doing!
Both of mine work like new.

[martin62]

Yes, I will post picture/Video as soon as possible.

[theseacowexists]

One of my all time favorite chorus vibrato sounds is the M100 with both Celeste tabs engaged 'half way' down! Killer tremelo,spot on Leslie 'fast'!

This is the reason why I didn't get in a rush to buy a Leslie after buying my M100! The vibrato celeste is such a sweet sound - especially with reverb.

[martin62]

I took some pictures of the pusher:

Seems there's something missing.

Pictures from the wiring:


Also I found a good one ebay. Looks like this:


Hope this helps. Don't know if it's broken or somebody made a conversion. Sorry, I'm not a technician, but I think I'll be able to fix or replace this if somebody can tell me what's to do...

Martin

[Sweet Pete]

Yours is missing one brass retainer tab and metal screw.Just as easy to get the complete replacement IMO.
It would cost me as much to mail you a tab and screw.....no guarantees you'll get it working properly.
The missing parts explains why it won't 'cancel' properly.

[martin62]

I ordered a good one. I think I'm gonna make it. Thank you. Can you tell from the pictures whether the wiring is correct or something is missing or broken?

[enor]

What I don't get is... why do you want the auto cancel? It is a limitation, not an asset...

[martin62]

You may be right. But I want mint condition.

[Sweet Pete]

What I don't get is... why do you want the auto cancel? It is a limitation, not an asset...

I must try this! Let's see,if I remove a brass retainer....You've seen this before enor?
I can't remember what if any effect the celeste cancel bypass would have?
Chorus and celeste at the same time IIRC?
Played a broken one once and it seemed alright,LOL.

My L101 upper preset selector hums on one setting that I can't seem to ground.
Will obtain a complete tab cluster instead of spending more time tracing down the invisible short!
'Full Organ' does sound great on these little monsters though!
Really rocks through my franken 760/45.

[enor]

I must try this! Let's see,if I remove a brass retainer....You've seen this before enor?

No, I haven't actually seen it put to use nor tried it myself; but this is one of the improvement modifications Trevor Noon talks about in his document "Beauty in the E" (a description of functional improvement modifications to the E-100 series Hammonds). The E-100 and the M-100 share the same vibrato configuration, at least control wise.