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  • Percussion-zap?, busbar?, wiring?

    Newbie so be gentle. I have read there is no such thing as a dumb question.

    L103 > 145.

    I have been a member of the forum since late December so just getting started here. I am trying to become a contributor in this forum and have been posting a few questions and one time tried to help someone else out. Will be glad to help others once I get more experience. I have read all through the old posts and I mean probably every one of them as my interest is extreme. Baffled by the lack of responses to my posts as I have tried to be cordial and informative in my descriptions of my problems to enable veterans here to assist with little effort. I know, sounds like sour grapes and I don't mean to offend, just curious why so many have reviewed my posts and so few have commented?

    Many thanks to those who have tried to help me here. You know who you are as I have added to your rep (I think...still working my way through the procedures).

    I mistakenly noted in a recent post that the organ was 100% up to snuff and I was getting into the Leslie to get it sorted. I have been fooling myself on two topics. One is that there IS a bit of a 60Hz hum that I need to address in the organ and will be looking into taking care of the caps. Didn't really think the hum was too bad, but maybe it should not be present at all. That is not my issue today. The other is something I only noticed a few minutes ago. I am missing percussion only on a couple notes and having searched the threads I have not turned up a solid troubleshooting technique for this. It is probably somewhere here, I just haven't found it so asking you to bear with me and maybe give me a clue?

    My question:
    With all drawbars in and third percussion selected, I get a proper tone on all keys except the "B" before "C2".
    Similarly, with second percussion selected, I get all except the "F#" before "C3".


    I am guessing this is either a wiring issue or a busbar issue and as a noob I think this is a reasonable question to pose. Will someone please point me to a troubleshooting guide or, more generously, provide some advice as to how to proceed?

    Thanks, magoo

  • #2
    It takes a while to learn how to ask the proper questions,no worries there guy!

    The Hammond service manual troubleshooting guide explains how this is traced down!

    I have two AO43's on the 'rebuild list' at this time.60 Hz issues=new PS caps!

    Keying issues....

    1."Strike the offending key repeatedly to dislodge any foreign particles from the bussbars",after that....
    2. Inspect the wiring with a continuity meter keeping in mind a wire can appear connected and have a short!

    I stand L100's on their ends,shake all the crud to the treble end,and fire up the vacuum.
    Have fixed keying issues this way a few times.Didn't read this procedure in the manual....
    the old horizontal 6 inch drop has cleared quite a few issues over the years.
    I lift the bass end and drop it. I lift the treble end and drop it.
    Make sure the tubes are cold though!

    hope this helps,
    Pete
    A100/251 A100/147 A102/222 B2/142 BV/147 BCV/145 M3/145 M102/145 M111/770 L101/760 T222/HL722 M111/770 no B3/C3!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sweet Pete View Post
      It takes a while to learn how to ask the proper questions,no worries there guy!

      The Hammond service manual troubleshooting guide explains how this is traced down!

      hope this helps,
      Pete
      Thanks Pete!

      Really happy to see you showed up again for this one. You have been helpful on a couple occasions and I really appreciate your support!

      I have the service manual and probably should have started there. Striking the keys quite a lot was my first try on this issue, maybe haven't beat them into submission yet. If Keith can swing, drop and bang one around, and you have cured some keying issues this way, sounds like something to try.

      Thanks again, magoo

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sweet Pete View Post
        ...the old horizontal 6 inch drop has cleared quite a few issues over the years.
        I lift the bass end and drop it. I lift the treble end and drop it.
        Make sure the tubes are cold though!

        I like this possible solution ... look out the next L100 that anyone tells me is having problems ... :)
        1966 C-3 / 925
        1965 M102 / 145
        1967 M111A / 330

        Comment


        • #5
          Not so fast!

          You're missing the same frequency (#67) in both places - that's too much of a coincidence for me to believe it's a keying problem.

          Is frequency #67 present elsewhere on the manuals, where it should be?

          Top manual:
          Drawbar 2 - 2nd B from the top
          Drawbar 3 - Topmost F#
          Drawbar 4 - 2nd F# from the top
          Drawbar 5 - 2nd B from the bottom
          Drawbar 6 - 2nd F# from the bottom
          Drawbar 7 - First D from the bottom
          Drawbar 8 - First B from the bottom
          Drawbar 9 - First F# from the bottom


          And bottom manual:
          Drawbar 2 - topmost F#
          Drawbar 3 - 2nd B from the top
          Drawbar 4 - 2nd F# from the top
          Drawbar 5 - 2nd D from the bottom
          Drawbar 6 - 2nd B from the bottom
          Drawbar 7 - 2nd F# from the bottom


          My guess is all those places are silent, in addition to the percussion problem you've been talking about?
          Current organs: AV, M-3, A-100
          Current Leslies: 22H, 122, 770

          Comment


          • #6
            This is a very valuable source of information, for future reference:
            http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/HammondOrgans

            In particular, this page will pinpoint the key/drawbar combination for the entire keyboard.
            http://www.dairiki.org/hammond/wiring/

            So, if you are missing a tone, click on that particular key and you will see exactly which key/drawbar combination shares that tone.

            If you are missing the tone on all those keys, the problem probably is in the TG and wiring before the keyboard.
            If only one of those tones is missing, and the others play, the problem lies in the contacts or wiring for that individual key.

            Bob
            In theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.
            In reality, there is.
            '54 C-2 & Pair of 122 Leslies
            H-324/Series 10 TC
            '35 Model A (Serial# 41) with a 21H
            Look at some of my rescues:
            https://www.flickr.com/photos/58226398@N03/albums

            Comment


            • #7
              Thank you so much enor and Bobman! How could I have missed this! I really thought I had all the tones checked out, but you are correct enor, I am missing tone 67 everywhere that It is supposed to be present.

              I will dig into the TWG and wiring and get this corrected. I won't be doing any acrobatics or lift and drops after all. Thanks again for the information and advice!

              I have a long way to go in my education. Good to know help is available when we get stumped. Have a great day all!

              Comment


              • #8
                Hey Pete,

                Didn't Keith Emerson put the L's on end? But didn't he go one step further and insert knives at just the right locations? Slicing dendrites maybe?

                I remember back at the Hawk's Nest in downtown Toronto, where the roadies would drop B3's down the stairs, not just 6 inches. Is that why they sounded so good?

                Dave
                1955 B3, Leslie 21H and 147. Hammond A100 with weird Leslie 205. 1976 Rhodes. Wurlitzer 200A. Yamaha DX7/TX7. Korg M1. Yamaha C3 grand, 67 Tele blond neck, Les Paul Standard, PRS 24, Gibson classical electric, Breedlove acoustic electric, Strat, P Bass, Rogers drum kit, Roland TD 12 digital drums, Apollo quad, older blackfaced Fender Twin, other amps, mics and bits and pieces cluttering up the "studio."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by peterb_2795 View Post
                  I like this possible solution ... look out the next L100 that anyone tells me is having problems ... :)
                  Didn't Keith use this technique on his L100? I think he may have also applied some Knives.

                  - - - Updated - - -

                  Originally posted by Tonewheel View Post
                  Hey Pete,

                  Didn't Keith Emerson put the L's on end? But didn't he go one step further and insert knives at just the right locations? Slicing dendrites maybe?

                  I remember back at the Hawk's Nest in downtown Toronto, where the roadies would drop B3's down the stairs, not just 6 inches. Is that why they sounded so good?

                  Dave
                  Sorry didn't see this. :embarrassed:
                  Fender Rhodes 73 (1972), Minimoog D, Hammond A101 w/ Leslie 147, Yamaha 223, Motif XS8

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just to put a period on this thread, the problem has been fixed. Enor pointed me in the correct direction and diagnosed the problem (frequency 67 missing everywhere), and Bobmann provided a link to the wiring diagram showing that the affected terminal was the 19th wire (terminal) from the left on the 2nd twg terminal board. Investigated here and found the wire was secure to the terminal and was going to reflow the solder joint to make sure. I bent the wire around a bit with an affected key held down and appropriate drawbar selected and the tone jumped out. Couldn't make it fail again. Found the frequency now appears everywhere it is supposed to. I will keep an eye on this but I'm calling it good for now. The organ is not going to be traveling anywhere but I will continue to watch for the symptom to return if it gets jostled a bit. If I can't make it not work when I'm trying to, I'm just calling it a blessing! Thanks again to all for your help!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Glad you got it sorted out magoo! Strange but true,I fired up the L101 only to find tone 51 missing everywhere.This is after spending a week on either end to flow the oil better.
                      Giving a little drop to an L100 can enhance playing the actual keys to dislodge foreign material from the bussbars.The caveat is a cold solder joint from the procedure.
                      While I was at it,an hour later the whole terminal strip was good as new!Done in this order,it really cleans up this model.
                      Soldered the terminal that appeared unbroken,and it came back to life.This is a really early L101,#65**,November '61.It has a '62 run motor and a new RM cap!
                      Once the click filter was removed from the AO43 and AO42,it really got the spit it missed.Really like it paired with the franken 45/760 Leslie I built.
                      Rockin' little rig,maybe I can work some mojo into it!
                      Don't think I'll be throwing it around though,or running with any sharp objects.

                      Within the last five years,we've lost Keith Emerson,George Duke,Greg Allman,Billy Powell,Ray Manzarek,Jon Lord,Jimmy Greenspoon,Goldy McJohn.
                      And the old Hammonds?
                      Will hopefully still be working well past our time here!
                      Will the Yamaha DX7 work 100 years from now?
                      A100/251 A100/147 A102/222 B2/142 BV/147 BCV/145 M3/145 M102/145 M111/770 L101/760 T222/HL722 M111/770 no B3/C3!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sweet Pete View Post
                        Will the Yamaha DX7 work 100 years from now?
                        I sure hope so, I love mine.
                        Current organs: AV, M-3, A-100
                        Current Leslies: 22H, 122, 770

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Copy that, Enor.

                          I have a TX7 stacked on a DX7, slightly detuned, and they are lovable. I keep them oiled regularly (joke)....

                          Pete,

                          Need to find the "click filter" on my B3. Is that an easy job?

                          They sing about tears in heaven, and lots of sermons about harps, but will there be Hammonds? (I have friends in both places).

                          Dave
                          1955 B3, Leslie 21H and 147. Hammond A100 with weird Leslie 205. 1976 Rhodes. Wurlitzer 200A. Yamaha DX7/TX7. Korg M1. Yamaha C3 grand, 67 Tele blond neck, Les Paul Standard, PRS 24, Gibson classical electric, Breedlove acoustic electric, Strat, P Bass, Rogers drum kit, Roland TD 12 digital drums, Apollo quad, older blackfaced Fender Twin, other amps, mics and bits and pieces cluttering up the "studio."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tonewheel View Post
                            They sing about tears in heaven, and lots of sermons about harps, but will there be Hammonds? (I have friends in both places).
                            Dave
                            It has been said that the Hammond B-3 is God's harmonica !
                            :)
                            Roger Memphis
                            C-3 with O-M, 145, 122RV, 2 PR-40's, PSR-36
                            CV with HR-40, 2 B-40's

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Can I quote you on that?

                              B-)
                              1955 B3, Leslie 21H and 147. Hammond A100 with weird Leslie 205. 1976 Rhodes. Wurlitzer 200A. Yamaha DX7/TX7. Korg M1. Yamaha C3 grand, 67 Tele blond neck, Les Paul Standard, PRS 24, Gibson classical electric, Breedlove acoustic electric, Strat, P Bass, Rogers drum kit, Roland TD 12 digital drums, Apollo quad, older blackfaced Fender Twin, other amps, mics and bits and pieces cluttering up the "studio."

                              Comment

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