Happy days

[PGR]

Just picked up a good used B3 and 147 with the matching bench. serial is 94263 built in Chicago for Canada. Like most instruments this old that have not been used it is very dirty . From what I can tell the caps in the TW are the reddish version and other than maybe checking the peak performance values of the TW don't need to replace anything but I sure need to oil that generator - Good sign is I got it started on the second attempt The line vibrato seems to work reasonably well but for sure can be cleaned . Percussion is all there but not performing very well and the drawbars !!! well lets just say they don't exist they are soo dirty and contacts are not good at all. good cleaning here is a must.
So this instrument needs a major cleaning even before I can start to play it. It also comes with a leslie which needs major restoration. need the amp done
and crossover for sure

The biggest issue I Can see is the cabinets for both have major gigging all over them so want to clean these an refinish BUT it WORKS

Some of the veneer has broken off ANY ONE have experience replacing this? any good ideas on fixing this so the organs look great?

[Tonewheel]

Hi PGR,

Congratulations on a very nice find!

Any good trauma surgeon would tell you to work on the vital organs first, then call in the plastics guys for the cosmetics.

Sounds like you have the right priorities. In Brantford you are unlikely to find a Hammond tech, more likely in Hamilton. if no tech, you can get an amp repair guy to use the circuit diagrams easily available from the gang here, and even a DVD and pdf on repairing the B3 (see the thread Being ripped off by Hammond B3 and Leslie Tips). Judging from the oxidation there, it might be dendrite city.

There should be some local cabinet makers who can do the wood working. Not cheap, but doable. It looks like they might need a heat gun to loosen up the bad veneer; cherry veneer won't break the bank. The one large area where there is damage near the ends can probably be done by selectively removing the bad portion (cutting in along a previous veneer seam, removing and gluing in veneer beside it. Matching the stain and applying the matching finish takes a guy with skills, and that's where you can expect some costs. This isn't just a stain and wipe-on poly job.

For the smaller dings, you can probably get away with techniques like this: https://www.thisoldhouse.com/how-to/...rniture-finish

I am confident that far more qualified members here will chime in.

Very happy for you about this prize. There is an old European saying, "The man who catches the biggest fish doesn't take the back streets through the village"

Dave.

[muckelroy]

If this is a '65 era B3 (which I think it almost certainly is,) then it almost certainly has foam in the manuals.

Plenty of literature on the forums and elsewhere about this condition. Remove it as soon as possible.

[PGR]

Hi Dave

Thanks for the link to TOH that is what I was looking for - I have a few scratches on the finish of my A100 and 122 but I was not sure just how to proceed This gives me some great ideas .
On the B3 the damage on the fall board is real and your right to suggest removing the veneer and replacing it . Im not really sure if the veneer is Cherry or walnut? The reason for this is the 147 is definitely walnut and under florescent light the organ has that reddish cherry look However when I look really close and notice the hinges - they have been over stained with a brush SO something have been added to the underside of the fall boards to attempt to clean them up somehow . It is not a lot of cover because the grain can just barely come through but there is something there. Happy YES I have been looking for a B3 for a long time ..ever since I was a teen but always too expensive or Too far away - This was close enough to grab Will be working on the internals first the Keys and Combs are really bad and the felts all need to be replaced - will be nice to play without the keys banging. And it is a 65 so need to open it up and de foam the old girl too. I would not necessarily jump at this task except that a noted Hammond Teck in his appraisal suggested a tone was missing because of the foam SO it has to go. I would like to get a better feeling as to what the real colour of this organ is ....is it walnut ....is it Oak or Dark cherry? thoughts on this would be great MAybe its Mahogany
Gord

[David Anderson]

One of the secrets to the look of Hammond cases is that they were sprayed with tinted lacquer. This tends to minimize the color of the veneer itself and allowed Hammond to produce a product with a consistent finish without having to labor over each organ to achieve that. The veneer may be walnut or cherry, but a good bit of the color comes from the tint in the lacquer itself.

[PGR]

Thanks David

based on your vast experience Do you have an idea of what color tint was used on this B3? The fourth one is the 147

[Bobmann]

All in all, that is in pretty good shape.

As far as refinishing the cabinet, it all depends on how much work you want to do and what you want the end result to be.
If you are going to move it around a lot, just patching those places is probably all you want to do.

If you want a showpiece, then a total refinish is what you need. To do this, you will need to remove the amp and keyboard at the very least.

Then there is somewhere in the middle. You could mask the scratches and put a coat of Tung oil or something over the whole thing. You could just stick the loose veneer down and put some stain over the area to mask the damage, and leave it.

The veneer is walnut. In order to match grain pattern that is what you need to use. Keep in mind that unless you strip the whole cabinet, the repaired portion will never match the rest of the cabinet. Even then, the grain and color will never be a perfect match.
The most efficient way to re-veneer the inside of that top would be to fill the areas that are gouged and missing veneer to make it all smooth and level, then glue a sheet over the top of the whole thing. You will never notice the extra layer. Removing existing veneer can sometimes go very easily, and sometimes you end up doing more damage while trying to remove the old veneer, even using a heat gun. Once you start removing the old stuff, you cannot go back.

The factory finish is indeed tinted lacquer, as David said. One never knows what else was put over the original finish, so it is hard to tell.
I have seen varnish and polyurethane sprayed over the whole thing.
The main reason for the tinted lacquer was so that Hammond could use a variety of different types of wood, and the finished cabinet color would be uniform in color. Especially on later models, one will find poplar, oak, maple, ask, etc in addition to the walnut.

A little off topic, but I am working on a Leslie now that was painted black...my guess is that they used a paint roller. The owner wanted it refinished back to natural wood.
So, I proceed to strip the finish...under the black was sparkle purple. Under the purple was white. Under that was finally the original finish.
Another time I had a RT that was beige and was sprayed over with some sort of glitter and varnish...they sprayed this stuff over the entire keyboard, including the keys.
Every time I think that I have seen it all, I get something that makes me shake my head...but I digress.

The missing piece of trim on the Leslie can be purchased from Valhalla Woodworks.

Just food for thought...if you intend on keeping her for a long time, my advice is to go ahead and remove the keyboard so you can give the whole thing a real good cleaning including the DB, switch boxes, keys, felts, etc. She will be good for another 40 years. This assumes that you are comfortable soldering a bunch of wires.
With the KB out of the way you can do thorough oiling of the TG from underneath, and clean the scanner.
This all assumes that you are willing to undertake such a project and have an area to work on it.

Take a look at a few of the Hammonds that I have refinished, to get an idea of what would be involved in a total refinish.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/58226398@N03/sets/

Let us know how you decide to proceed, and I am sure we can help you out.

Bob

[Bobmann]

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Thanks David

based on your vast experience Do you have an idea of what color tint was used on this B3? The fourth one is the 147

Original color is irrelevant. The environmental conditions she spent her life in determines what the color is now. You may notice the top areas are lighter than the lower areas, due to sun bleaching.

I use Minwax stain products just because they are readily available around here.
Typically a mixture of "Special Walnut", "Dark Walnut" and "Red Mahogany" (1:2:1/2) will blend most cabinets. Hard to tell from a picture, but yours looks like it may not need the red tint.
I have used the stain to hide the scratches...some people use Howards "Restore-A-Finish". That stuff is good for scratches but larger areas...not so much. Personally, I do not use it. If, however, all you want is to mask those scratches, it may be your best bet.

Bob

[Tonewheel]

There you go, PGR. Look at Bob's B3 and C3 restorations! Very nice work. And I can only imagine the Russian nesting doll experience refinishing the black Leslie.

I really like his idea of adding veneer, rather than removing.

A couple of years ago, I finally found my 1955 B3/21H with a bit of sun fade, but on the fallboard, someone had a potted plant that damaged the finish in that area and a bit beyond. There is a pot light reflection, but you can see the beautiful original finish. I have hesitated to tackle this because I am not certain about compatibilities of varnishes. Big chicken, but giving other folks advice!

If anyone in the forum would like to weigh in this, thanks in advance.

Again, very happy for you and the best of success in getting this classic up and running again.

Dave

[PGR]

Hi Bobmann

I am really impressed with the finished results you are getting nice work.
My plan is that this instrument will be a life time purchase, I still have the L100 and Leslie 122 I got as a kid - lol That was over 50 years ago.. But I want this B3 to look nice so I can feel great playing it. My plan is to gut it and refinish the cabinet Repair the parts and put it back together. Would like to document as I go too but not my main concern. The idea of filling and replacing the veneer is a good one - I like that idea. This organ was owned by one person and I believe that s why it is in pretty good shape . Key board needs to come out so I can tackle the foam issue and that's when I will do the rest - along with the Key combs too.

I am part way into the 147 and was planning to pull it all apart - do the needed cleanup , rework the motor stacks , new running rubber Amp check over and crossover etc. Then strip the cabinet and re finish. So I want to know what type of stripper you use ? commercial strong or retail available. Name if you please I don't use any of this stuff and so Have no experience - your suggestions could save me a nasty experience. Do you do anything special to handle the trim around the top?

I actually have two trim pieces missing on the bottom - It is cherry wood? I can fashion my own the same I think - without too much of an issue - just need to know the wood

Appreciate any help you can provide guys Thanks
PGR.

[Bobmann]

There you go, PGR. Look at Bob's B3 and C3 restorations! Very nice work. And I can only imagine the Russian nesting doll experience refinishing the black Leslie.

I really like his idea of adding veneer, rather than removing.

A couple of years ago, I finally found my 1955 B3/21H with a bit of sun fade, but on the fallboard, someone had a potted plant that damaged the finish in that area and a bit beyond. There is a pot light reflection, but you can see the beautiful original finish. I have hesitated to tackle this because I am not certain about compatibilities of varnishes. Big chicken, but giving other folks advice!

If anyone in the forum would like to weigh in this, thanks in advance.

Again, very happy for you and the best of success in getting this classic up and running again.

Dave

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This is one of those things that depends on what your desired results need to be.

If you do not mind the look of the stains, I suggest a light sanding over the entire surface to blend the missing lacquer then spray the whole surface with lacquer. Just tape off the rest of the cabinet, or take the top off. To me that looks like an original finish which would be lacquer.
The beauty of lacquer is that no matter the age, another coat will melt into the previous, so you can apply as many coats as you want until it looks good to you. It will become a single layer. It also dries real fast so dust does not have chance to settle. If you mess up, wait 30 minutes, sand the offending area, then put another coat on. Finishes like Polyurethane and varnish need to be roughed up in order for additional coats to stick. It never becomes a homogenous layer. Dry times are also longer.
One caveat; one never knows what kind of waxes or furniture polish have been used on this over the years. Use Mineral Spirits to try to remove any contamination...several times with clean rags each time.
If Silicone was used at any time, you will need to get some stronger build-up remover at a paint store.

If you want to try to blend the color, I suggest trying a stain or blend of stain colors. It may help hide the light spots, but they will still be noticeable.
I have tried lacquer over Restore-A-Finish and it was a disaster. That stuff does not seem to be compatible with lacquer.
Stripping and refinishing the whole surface is an option, but that is messy.
Personally, I do not think it looks all that bad...a couple coats of lacquer may be adequate.

Bob

[Bobmann]

Hi Bobmann

I am really impressed with the finished results you are getting nice work.
My plan is that this instrument will be a life time purchase, I still have the L100 and Leslie 122 I got as a kid - lol That was over 50 years ago.. But I want this B3 to look nice so I can feel great playing it. My plan is to gut it and refinish the cabinet Repair the parts and put it back together. Would like to document as I go too but not my main concern. The idea of filling and replacing the veneer is a good one - I like that idea. This organ was owned by one person and I believe that s why it is in pretty good shape . Key board needs to come out so I can tackle the foam issue and that's when I will do the rest - along with the Key combs too.

I am part way into the 147 and was planning to pull it all apart - do the needed cleanup , rework the motor stacks , new running rubber Amp check over and crossover etc. Then strip the cabinet and re finish. So I want to know what type of stripper you use ? commercial strong or retail available. Name if you please I don't use any of this stuff and so Have no experience - your suggestions could save me a nasty experience. Do you do anything special to handle the trim around the top?

I actually have two trim pieces missing on the bottom - It is cherry wood? I can fashion my own the same I think - without too much of an issue - just need to know the wood

Appreciate any help you can provide guys Thanks
PGR.

The trim on the Leslie was probably birch or poplar. I have never seen Cherry used.
The ogee shape on that trim is rather unique, you may not be able to match it perfectly. I suggest that you tear it all off and replace all 3 pieces.
I have seen many Leslies that have different wood trim on top and bottom, as well as side to side. The toned lacquer hides all that.
Some special consideration is sometimes needed to match stains.

Stripping is a nasty, smelly, noxious job. You need to be really careful.
I have used several brands of stripper, the one I go back to is Jasco semi-paste.
The stuff is really noxious and will burn skin like a torch, but it works fast. I never do this unless I am outside, with a fan behind me. Heavy duty gloves and safety glasses are a must.
After stripping, the entire piece will need to be bathed in Lacquer Thinner and scrubbed with steel wool several times.
Inside those louvers is a PIA to strip clean.

I have tries a couple of those "natural" citrus based strippers, but they really work slow and require many applications. They are much safer, though.

If you do decide to go through with this, when would you be thinking of doing it?
I have been working on a video about refinishing that may be helpful, but it needs to be finished.
I could share a few tricks that can save you some time and aggravation.

Bob

[Tonewheel]

Thanks for the kind response!

Glad you mentioned Restore-a-Finish. Because if I had gone to lacquer at this point, it would have meant Destroy-a-FInish! That's what I have applied temporarily to the B3 fallboard, so it will need to come off. And that's what I meant about being a chicken about applying lacquer: incompatibility.

Quick question: I have restored some of our antiques using wipe-on poly because it seems to be very self-levelling. Perfect surface. The grain seems 3D. No orange-peel look that you can sometimes get with spray. Minimal steel wool treatments. If you have reservations about that on Hammonds, then I won't go in that direction.

Best regards,

Dave

[PGR]

hi Bob

I was about to start the process on the leslie 147 its top is a total mess and I think stripping is the only way to do this ... Where did you get the Jasco paste from Not sure where in Ontario it might be available - I could move the case to the garage and open the door on a good day to do this. Would it be possible (is there enough time say ) on a weekend to do the B3 cabinet and the Leslie cabinet together? I was thinking that maybe I would need to remove the one strip left on the leslie and replace them all to get the profile the same ....that s just fine makes the whole process easier than trying to match the one left. There was a little piece of scrap left on the leslie of one piece so when I stuck the puttly knife under it to pop it off it acted just like cherry so that's why I thought it might be and it is very scuff and nick resistant as a wood.
Thinking about the top some more ...if there was a way to apply lacquer and have it "melt" the existing lacquer to smooth it out might be better to take your advice and apply many coats to bring it back to life. Is this even possible? would really like to see the video or if I get ahead of your release date ..look forward to having you share your short cuts.

Gord

[Bobmann]

Thanks for the kind response!

Glad you mentioned Restore-a-Finish. Because if I had gone to lacquer at this point, it would have meant Destroy-a-FInish! That's what I have applied temporarily to the B3 fallboard, so it will need to come off. And that's what I meant about being a chicken about applying lacquer: incompatibility.

Quick question: I have restored some of our antiques using wipe-on poly because it seems to be very self-levelling. Perfect surface. The grain seems 3D. No orange-peel look that you can sometimes get with spray. Minimal steel wool treatments. If you have reservations about that on Hammonds, then I won't go in that direction.

Best regards,

Dave

I have used the wipe on poly many times when someone wants me to make their cabinet look better but does not want to go the whole refinish route. It is a great product. It is hard and durable.
I cannot say that I have ever tried it over Restore-A-Finish, though, so I cannot give advice there. I use oil base stains to cover the scratched areas.
I would still advise that you wipe down good with Mineral Spirits beforehand, as the poly will fish eye if there is a wax or silicone buildup. The Mineral Spirits will not hurt or soften the lacquer that is already there.

The reason that I do not use it more often is that I like to restore to original when possible, and also the poly is not the type of finish that you can build up any thickness with.
Mainly because I like the look of the lacquer.:->