About to buy an M-3 - wise warnings?

[ScottGirvan]

Hello folks,
My first post, hopefully not my last.

I have a chance to buy an M-3, my first real Hammond. Priced at $100 CAN it appears to be a fantastic opportunity to have the authentic sound. The owner is an auction house and is over 2 hours away. He was able, under my telephone instruction, to turn the organ on and said all the tubes lit up however he couldn't get a sound. He pulled out the drawbars, pivoted the pedal but nothing...He did hear it spin up while starting.

I can't be sure the TWG was tightened down when it was moved, or if it's been regularly oiled etc., etc., The instrument looks to be in fantastic stock condition.

I"m writing today to simply get your thoughts on this and any words to the wise. This would be my first and I have zero experience with owning / operating / maintaining a real Hammond. (Have had some clones)

Much thanks
Scott -

[Roger Memphis]

Hi Scott -
I'm assuming that someone hasn't removed the speaker from it.
Judging from the pictures and what the seller told you, I'd say Go For It !
It looks really clean and well-cared for.
There are enough good diagnosticians and technicians on this forum, that they can help you can get it working.
That's a fair price. Congrats !
Roger Memphis

[jdoc]

likely didn't know the start sequence or not oiled lately, pristine unit

[ScottGirvan]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen. Going to pick it up in the morning. I'll be sure to update the thread.

[peterb_2795]

If that unit were to be sat in an auction house here in Australia, it would have been gone in the time that it has taken to write the original post!! Beautiful condition cabinetry and external components. Like vintage cars, if the bodywork is ok, you can fix everything else. Nothing to think about there....

Good luck, hope it is still there for you when you go back to the seller... :)

[ScottGirvan]

Hi,
Thanks for the comments and encouragement. She's mine. I am so stoked man. I paid $115 CAN + $100 gas and $25 lunch for my buddy with the enclosed trailer.

This was listed on Kijiji (Canadian classified ads eh) under the Electronics category. Had it been under Musical Instruments it would have been gone in a 1/2 second.

It won't start but is in showroom condition from what I can estimate. I think the 5U4GB tube is toast - but I have zero experience. TWG bolts feel oily however the oil wells are dry. Drawbars move effortlessly. Mechanism around TWG (flywheel) turns effortlessly. Zero corrosion etc... minty.

I made a quick video - just a walk through and demonstrating the 'lack of start'.

I really appreciate your comments. I'll dig through the forum for further info of course.

Scott

[peterb_2795]

My gosh, you have certainly been blessed with that one - it will most certainly come a live again with but a modicum of investigation and effort.

Firstly, I doubt whether there is need to worry about the TWG and previous movement. Most likely held vertical ... :o)

Your video did not show the condition of the power cable so if it looks remotely original, change it straight away. Additionally, you didn't say whether there was any movement at all ro even whether you had any indication of power getting through. Just that it all seemed dead. From your photos, it almost looks like it is external gunk on the 5U4 rectifier. If this is the case, it could be baked on oil drips from previous possible over oiling - there does appear to be dried oil around the adjacent tubes as well. You have also mentioned there being a fuse. This would clearly be a later addition so you never know your luck in a raffle.

You are definitely on a winner with this one... a stupendous find indeed!..

Best of luck in your journey,
Peter

[David Anderson]

You can't tell if a tube is bad by looking at it, unless it's lost its vacuum (in which case, the getters will turn white). It looks like something dripped on the tube and burned from the heat. Oil? Just clean it off with something that will dissolve burned oil. It's likely that the organ has been over-oiled (chronically, from appearances) and that oil dripped down below.

Also, that rectifier tube (the 5U4GB) has absolutely nothing at all to do with whether or not the tone generator will start.

The funnels on top of the TG are just funnels that allow oil into a felt strip below. They will never stay full. The felt on top of the run motor should just be damp with oil. You should not have oil standing in the tub.

I hear something happening when you flick the switch. The start motor is at the opposite end from the run motor. You need to see if its shaft is moving towards the generator and engaging with a gear in the tone generator. It's not unusual for this gear on the tone generator to get stuck. Whatever you do, don't pry on it with anything like a screwdriver. Or maybe something is wrong with the start motor. Maybe the oil threads to it got broken, and the shaft it stuck. Make a video of the start motor in action, and we might be able to help.

Also, be aware that due to the age of the amp, it may need some work, regardless of the cosmetic condition of the organ.

[Sweet Pete]

Congrats! Nice looking M3! That 5U4 will still work fine I suspect. #0000 steel wool will clean that right up with a few drops of penetrating oil.
Might as well clean the tube pins and sockets while you're at it.
The start motor has a shaft that should move in and out freely.The shaft should be visible behind the flat metal retainer on the far right end of the genny.
While turning the start switch put some inwards pressure on the shaft to see if it is stuck.You should feel the magnetic force of the bendix gear once power is applied.
Once this bendix is turning freely and lubricated the genny will most likely start.Turning the start switch should have that shaft moving freely!That's the ticket to get it running!

That's a late M3,probably made after 1960.They were still available special order after the M100 was made available.

[Roger Memphis]

Hi Scott -
Congrats again! Was there a hardboard cover over the generator? (see picture below). If not, you should call the seller or anyone else that may know what happened to it. If it's not available, it would be a good idea to fabricate something at some point. It's not urgent, but well worth the effort. It will protect the generator from dust, bugs, mice (not that you have those) in case they come to visit.
That 5U4 rectifier tube is probably OK. It looks like you have cleaned it up. The burned spot on the inside near the top is normal; it's caused by the "getter" flash from the first application of power to the tube. (Google "vacuum tube getter"). I listened to and watched your video carefully, but couldn't tell if anything at all was happening when you turned on the start and run switches. i.e. was the start motor "trying" to turn? Was the run motor trying? There are several things that could be preventing the generator from turning... the most likely ones would be lack of lubrication or a jammed start motor, as was previously mentioned. Let's try to determine that first. Also, you mentioned a reluctance to touch anything because the organ was plugged in or turned on. The line voltage terminals are covered by that long metal box and there's not much else that you can easily access that will shock you, so you can try to turn the flywheel with the organ powered up. I recall that the seller told you that the tubes light up. Is that true when the run switch has been on long enough for them to warm up? My phone is ringing, so I'll stop here. Meanwhile search our archives for "jammed start motor" and "stuck generator" and read up on some of those threads.
Good Luck and Kind regards,
:)
Roger Memphis

[ScottGirvan]

Thank you very very much guys. I made a quick video answering you questions.

[enor]

With a start motor stuck that solidly, I would take it off and apart. It's a bit too far gone to not do a proper clean & lube job.

[ScottGirvan]

Thank you for the reply,

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. I'll look around for info on that. I'm an not mechanically inclined at all, maybe buying this was a bad decision.

[Roger Memphis]

Thank you for the reply,
Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. I'll look around for info on that. I'm an not mechanically inclined at all, maybe buying this was a bad decision.

Hi Scott -
You did not make a bad decision! You made a good buy and we'll get that creampuff running. The power cord looks good and appears to have been replaced. I'm pleased that you have the generator cover.

Enor is correct that a rebuild, clean-up and lube could be in order. If you attempt that here are some resources:
Read this Start Motor discussion: http://bentonelectronics.com/hammond...r-start-motor/
Here's a video posted by one of our members and best contributors through Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWwmX85-Ha4 (particularly from 1:20).
There are some exploded parts drawings on the web but I can't find them right now... anyone help?
Are the oil wick threads still attached to the motor bearings? Be careful not to break them!
Scott, you say that your not mechanically inclined, but I'll bet that you can probably do this repair... not too difficult if you keep up with where all of the parts go and their order. Make a drawing if you must. Lay the parts out on paper in proper order, etc.

BUT, before you attempt, let's try this: With a Zoom Spout Oiler or eye dropper or broom straw, etc. Try to get a few drops of light-weight oil on the motor bearings at each side of the armature (Hammond Generator Oil, 3-in-1, sewing machine oil, Zoom Spout Oil, etc.) Let it soak a couple of days and then see if you can get the motor to turn. Force it by hand if necessary. I have seen small fan motors locked up so tightly that you literally could not turn them by the blades with your hand, but they freed up and ran great after the bone-dry bearings soaked a couple of days. The bearings are porous bronze and it takes some time for the oil to move by capillary attraction from their outside inward to the motor shaft. This treatment is far simpler than disassembly and is well worth a try.
Good Luck !
:)
Roger Memphis

[ScottGirvan]

Thank you Roger - I will get some 3-in-1 and try just that.

I was able to turn that gear by my finger at first but as I shot the video it would no longer turn. Perhaps oil is all it needs. The threads are still intact from what I can tell so I'll be very careful around them.

Very appreciate everyone.
Scott -