BusBAr Question on B3

[PGR]

Is this Bus Bar in need of replacement? I had to get the picture thru a magnifying glass sorry about the quality There is a very small edge to the bus bar IS THAT edge the Wire (I think Cadnium?) that other speak about. Where does one get a replacement? for the busbar? there are lots of spots on the bar itself that look like they have had te wire cut thru to the bar So I kind of wonder if I am over thinking this

CAn anyone help here? Thanks so much folks

[MRTRIP56]

A piece of the palladium wire has broke off. I would say that bussbar needs to be replaced.

[carioca100]

Yes, does not look functional. For a replacement, try M & S organ in Chicago. he has tons of hammond parts and is in the old Hammond building on Diversy street. Google him for phone #.

good luck

[Bobmann]

Is this Bus Bar in need of replacement? I had to get the picture thru a magnifying glass sorry about the quality There is a very small edge to the bus bar IS THAT edge the Wire (I think Cadnium?) that other speak about. Where does one get a replacement? [ATTACH=CONFIG]30085[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]30086[/ATTACH] for the busbar? there are lots of spots on the bar itself that look like they have had te wire cut thru to the bar So I kind of wonder if I am over thinking this

CAn anyone help here? Thanks so much folks

As stated, thie buss bar is shot.
Replacements can sometimes be found on Ebay as well, but they are scarce.

IMO, this is going to be the demise of many of our cherished Hammonds. The Buss Bars are a part that has no alternative available other than to harvest from a donor.
These parts are also subject to wear.

I would recommend to all reading this to look into cleaning your buss bars, and to give them a little shift every few years to spread the wear points. This will help them last longer.
Damage as is seen in the above pictures are a result of constant wear in a single spot done over the life of the organ.


Bob


EDIT There are at least 2 different sixes of buss bars.
The bars with double bend ends are .040 x .046 inches measuerd without wire, .046 x .040 to top of wire
Single bend bars are .021 x .063 without wire, .021 x .069 to top of wire.
I do not have any of the solid buss bars that did not have the palladium wire to measure.

[joecool240]

If you can't obtain a replacement bus bar, as a last resort you can flip over the bus-bar and install the side without the palladium wire facing up.
Be sure it's clean before installing this way. You may notice a bit more key click with a flipped bus-bar.

Joe

[Bobmann]

If you can't obtain a replacement bus bar, as a last resort you can flip over the bus-bar and install the side without the palladium wire facing up.
Be sure it's clean before installing this way. You may notice a bit more key click with a flipped bus-bar.

Joe

Buss bars are made to be installed only one way.
Some have a single bend on one end, some have a double bend.
The bent part is supposed to go under the clamp plate that holds the buss bars in place.

In order to install the buss bar upside down one would have to rebend the bussbar.
Also, I would wonder about the interaction of the keyboard contact against a square rather than round bussbar. I do not know for sure, but I would guess that the square edges of the bussbar would cause issues not to mention wear on the keyboard contact side.

Bob

[PGR]

In this video the Palladium wire is as plain as day at 1.43 minutes in. On my busbar the wire does not exist as a wire like this? my busbar profile it seems has been extruded with a very very tiny lip on the upper edge it is something I would be hard pressed to call a wire ...although in some places I can actually move it like a wire with my thumb nail

My bar as indicated is the single bend on the end and the bar measures .046 mm without the lip/wire and .047mm with the lip/wire thickness is .047mm not round but square. they are 41" in length that makes the WIRE .001 mm really really small .

Where there more profiles of busbars created by Hammonds suppliers in an attempt to create the best busbar? My b3 is circuit 65 and yes before you mention this "now with the foam removed"

[Bobmann]

In this video the Palladium wire is as plain as day at 1.43 minutes in. On my busbar the wire does not exist as a wire like this? my busbar profile it seems has been extruded with a very very tiny lip on the upper edge it is something I would be hard pressed to call a wire ...although in some places I can actually move it like a wire with my thumb nail

My bar as indicated is the single bend on the end and the bar measures .046 mm without the lip/wire and .047mm with the lip/wire thickness is .047mm not round but square. they are 41" in length that makes the WIRE .001 mm really really small .

Where there more profiles of busbars created by Hammonds suppliers in an attempt to create the best busbar? My b3 is circuit 65 and yes before you mention this "now with the foam removed"

The ones that I have seen are as I described above.

Note that my dimensions are inches.

The wire may or may not be where you are measuring.
If the buss bar has a notch near the end like this, the wire probably does not go all the way to the bent part. Also this buss bar base wire is probably a silver color. If you measure between the notch and the bend, you should get .063 in.
If the bussbar does not have that notch, the wire probably goes the entire length of the buss bar, and unless you measure at a place that the wire is missing, any measurement will be including the wire. This type measures .021 in x .063 without wire, .021 in x .069 in to top of wire. This buss bar base is also probably a copper color.


This is the double bend type. See that the wire goes the entire length of the buss bar just like the copper colored one as above. Unless you measure where the wire is missing, the overall will be .046 in x .046 in to top of wire.

The wire measures ,006 in diameter. (for those who do not deal in these small measurements, for a sense of scale a dark brown or black human hair is about .003 in. Red is a little thnner, blonde is about .002 in.)

Your eyes are probably better than mine, but I cannot see that wire on the smaller bars and the silver ones without magnification, and on the copper colored ones I can barely make out the silver colored wire just because of the color difference.

I have not seen every type of buss bar configuration, these are just ones I have seen.

Bob

[PGR]

ok perhaps my measurements are in inches so this would be 1000ths of and inch In the jpg 2 shows the shape of my busbars they have no latch removed as in your first picture , and down the side (top side) there is no wire ! The back edge of the busbar (from the contacts view point ) is where the raised edge is. it is measured as .001 to maybe .002 inches I need to mention again that it seems as though there is no wire and certainly there has been no conscious effort in manufacturing to build the rod and then apply a wire. It could be that I am just not seeing this correctly. HAs any one had experience with this type?

[joecool240]

Buss bars are made to be installed only one way.
Some have a single bend on one end, some have a double bend.
The bent part is supposed to go under the clamp plate that holds the buss bars in place.


Bob

Bobmann,

Yes, bus-bars are designed to be installed one way, but they are long enough to make one reverse bend in the opposite direction to go under the clamp.
If a bus-bar wire has many cut throughs, sticking up or missing chunks of palladium wire, the palladium wires on the contacts themselves could also be damaged.
As you know, it only takes one tiny piece of contact wire sticking up to cause a cipher (stuck tone).
As you stated, Hammonds have many types of but bars.

Not meaning to get off topic . . .

Joe

[muckelroy]

Yet another thread pointing out the need for somebody to either rebuild or manufacture replacement bus bars.

The irony of this need is that... the people who see the most demand for it (in terms of units needed) are also people who are collectors or techs, and who probably have the easiest access to donor bus bars, thus reducing the urgency for manufacturing replacements.

There has to be a tipping point where supply of donor bars will dwindle and well meaning and serious organ performers will pay for a newly manufactured or refurbished set. What price would YOU pay for such a product?
(Rhetorical question.)

[Bobmann]

Bobmann,

Yes, bus-bars are designed to be installed one way, but they are long enough to make one reverse bend in the opposite direction to go under the clamp.
If a bus-bar wire has many cut throughs, sticking up or missing chunks of palladium wire, the palladium wires on the contacts themselves could also be damaged.
As you know, it only takes one tiny piece of contact wire sticking up to cause a cipher (stuck tone).
As you stated, Hammonds have many types of but bars.

Not meaning to get off topic . . .

Joe

I guess I was not clear...I agree that this can be done at least in theory, but the buss bars do need to be rebent, as they would not he held under the clamp.

Curious, Joe... have you actually done this?
If so, did you notice any differences such as key click?
Any thoughts about longevity?

Bob

[JoeyB3]

As has been mentioned many times "Ad nauseam," the reason for the palladium on the busbars was its conductivity. If/when the surplus of functioning busbars cease to exist, one can go the Steve Leigh method by removing all the palladium from your existing bars and having them gold plated.

The problem which has not been solved (to my knowledge, anyway): how are you going to fix the (possibly) equally damaged key contacts?

[muckelroy]

The problem which has not been solved (to my knowledge, anyway): how are you going to fix the (possibly) equally damaged key contacts?

The good news there is that for every donor manual, there's 657 (?) or so key contacts, which hopefully most of those contacts are in OK shape to be re-used as donors. A single donor manual only has 9 bus bars, at most.

Plating seems like a good idea though. At least, a better idea than doing nothing.

[geoelectro]

You know Hammond used round "gold plated"? or perhaps brass busbars in several models including A-100's. The con is they need to be cleaned periodically. The pro is since they are round, they cause nearly zero wear to the contacts and they themselves don't wear. I wonder if round brass busbars could be used to replace worn rectangular ones? Brass or gold plated round bars certainly could be found somewhere.

Geo