B3 and 147 troubles

[PGR]

Here is my 147 hookup The small red , brown-grnd and black go down to the 147 plug and electrical box near the floor ( I don't know if the small black or red goes to the out plug for the cabinet out put and one to the 147 My guess is this is a typical ground and one half G situation. But even if it is. there is not sufficient volume.
Both the large reds go up to the percussion box.

If I knew what range the out put should be at the G to Ground terminals I could test that out and know the pre amp was reasonable or not- I might then go and review the 147 amp or focus on the pre amp.

[geoffbrown]

Need to see the hook up into the 147, but this does look like a one G and ground hookup, which should give you adequate, but reduced volume and no loss of signal quality, a compromise, not the ultimate way of doing it, using the matching transformer is best,
If you are not getting suitable volume with this hookup then look to the leslie

[PGR]

Here are three picts of the wiring in the leslie and power box near the floor of the B3
this is not what I expected to see. The left one is the power in main. the second in the middle is the hookup for a cabinet which I done have and likely never will The one on the left is the hookup for the 147.

It actually looks like the hook up for the 147 is getting signal the cabinet output but not direct.? It just seems weird to me

Tell me what you all think here.

I should also mention that the orientation for the cabinet plug (middle) starts center bottom = gnd brown then clockwise blue ac power; red G ; black G balanced; grey ac power

for the 147 the two mains are at pins 3 and 4; the big browns are the tremolo switching Don't know the rest.

[geoffbrown]

Are you saying the signal to 147 is supplied with two G's, or one G and ground?

[Sweet Pete]

The stock 5 pin A100 out to a 122 should have more grunt than a B3/147 hooked to both G terminals.
The A100 AO39 amp adds gain that an AO28 doesn't have.
I would try one G and a ground like enor suggests on the B3/147.

My A100/147 has a lot more gain than my B2/147.

[PGR]

Hey Sweet Pete & Geoffbrown
I look at my wiring to the 147 and I have trouble figuring it out
SO here is what I see: AC in and out is at pin 3 and 4 Which matches the 6W setup These are ok - pin 4 and 5 are tied together. this deviates from 6W
That leaves pin 1 and 6 but pins 1 and 6 are coming from somewhere else .. I would have thought that a leap from the cabinet hookup red signal to pin 6 the unbalanced signal and pin 1 to a true ground would have been correct .
On pin 2 and 3 is switched for tremolo. So maybe 1 and 6 are unbalanced and balanced signals and should be something different as Enor suggest

Im just not sure where pins 1 and 6 are coming from the large reds both of them. I need more investigation

Also in the schem for 6W setup I notice that the signal ground is the black color line which in my case is the other G terminal not the true ground see #31 middle picture. I would have thought it should be the brown ground in picture #31 can some one confirm this for me?

[enor]

Hey Sweet Pete & Geoffbrown
I look at my wiring to the 147 and I have trouble figuring it out
SO here is what I see: AC in and out is at pin 3 and 4 Which matches the 6W setup These are ok - pin 4 and 5 are tied together. this deviates from 6W
That leaves pin 1 and 6 but pins 1 and 6 are coming from somewhere else .. I would have thought that a leap from the cabinet hookup red signal to pin 6 the unbalanced signal and pin 1 to a true ground would have been correct .
On pin 2 and 3 is switched for tremolo. So maybe 1 and 6 are unbalanced and balanced signals and should be something different as Enor suggest

Im just not sure where pins 1 and 6 are coming from the large reds both of them. I need more investigation

Also in the schem for 6W setup I notice that the signal ground is the black color line which in my case is the other G terminal not the true ground see #31 middle picture. I would have thought it should be the brown ground in picture #31 can some one confirm this for me?

The thick red wires from 1 and 6 of your 147 outlet are connected to red G and ground on your preamp, as per your previous pictures. Nothing strange there - except of course it's odd to run long wires all the way back to the preamp when the exact same signal is available on the adjacent jack ;)

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and the jumper between 4-5 is perfectly normal, as is the rest of your hookup. Looks like a very standard 147 connection.

- - - Updated - - -

Edit #2: It also appears this organ might have had previous preamp problems, and the preamp has been worked on by someone with, shall we say "limited experience". The solder down in the outlet box looks good, but the porous big blobs of solder on the preamp terminals don't look promising. I'd have that thing checked.

[PGR]

OK Enor, I chased back the big reds from the 147 Amphenol out. and what you say is correct the 6 pin fat red goes to the grnd brown on the pre amp and the 1 pin goes to the Red signal on the pre amp. So this is a normal 147 hook up. took me a little while cause I could not easily see where the fat reds went to. Is it possible that the porous soldier is apart of my problem? And Like you didn't expect to see lines all the way back to the pre amp again

You are so right "I have limited experience" - and probably using the wrong soldier - with too cold an iron etc etc plus putting on too much and not getting the correct flow so I need to fix that up. I can agree with you though - someone else was in the back and had less ability than me! it was a real mess before.


I want to also hook up my 122 so I can run both on the B3
Any way I do want to also hook up my 122 at the same time. So I have both sides of a balanced signal in the box and a good ground , I have both sides of the ac , I have to get B+ down there and I will pick that up from a tube - I have the adapter for the tube. I could use the fat reds to the back of the current tremolo switch -instead of the second pre amp signal set and rewire the floor box with the correct jumpers for signal to the 147 - small red , small black, This might help to clean up the pre amp some too. Does this make sense and am I on the right track here ?

[geoffbrown]

So it seem's to be established that your 147 is hooked up by the one G and ground method, but this should still have half decent volume, maybe a fault in the 147?
I still favour using the matching transformer and two G method as the best way to go, enor's way is a poor man's compromise.
Some people are not comparing apples with apples here, hooking up a 147 to the speakers of an A100 will give great volume of course, not the same as hooking a B3 to a 147 via one G terminal

[Hillbilly]

Great info available here.....

http://www.captain-foldback.com/Leslie_sub/pinouts.htm

[PGR]

Geoffbrown, PLease explain what your pin set up looks like Geoff

[Sweet Pete]

So it seem's to be established that your 147 is hooked up by the one G and ground method, but this should still have half decent volume, maybe a fault in the 147?
I still favour using the matching transformer and two G method as the best way to go, enor's way is a poor man's compromise.
Some people are not comparing apples with apples here, hooking up a 147 to the speakers of an A100 will give great volume of course, not the same as hooking a B3 to a 147 via one G terminal

This A100 is hooked up to a 147 without a Leslie branded kit! Right off the 'verb dial(+) and a speaker ground(-) to 'open' setting on output selector switch.
Blows the doors off any B3/147 or B3/122 I've played,which are numerous. MEE switch? No thanks. Just another place to lose signal IMO.Especially the 'ensemble' setting.
If I want 'tone cabinet' output as well,this Radial JDX speaker DI sounds great through the monitors/FOH. Much smaller than an HR40.
Same great 'speaker' tone though.

Do you know for sure the 147 isn't part of the problem? Have you played your A100 through it?
Maybe the volume pot on the 147 should be replaced? Reflow the solder at least, on that dial.
Another place a 147 can lose 'steam' is a weak 12AU7. Clean the tube socket and pins and re-test.
Finally,the big 470 ohm resistor under there is your 'output tone'. Known to cause output level level troubles when out of spec.

I suspect the problem is in 'both' 147 and AO28. I would determine the 147 is working properly first.
Once I obtained a Weller solder station,all my work improved.I have repaired quite a few things by just reflowing the solder properly.
It was less expensive than a Haako,will still get it done though! Even I can make pro solder connections now.You can too.

I agree with Geoff. A balancing tranny will allow both legs of the G-G terminals to operate as intended and get the most signal from your B3.
And I agree with Geoff that the status of the 147 must be determined first.

[PGR]

Thanks Billy I did have page one but appreciate the complete set

[PGR]

Hey Pete I have not tested the 147 with my a100 as yet. Basically because I was doing the work on the B3 this time. I have already completed the needed upgrades to the 147 capacitors and some of the resistors as well as the horn separator (forget the name) - but maybe I need to go back to it and just re check my stuff.
How would you all suggest I check the 147 ? Would it be ok to run the 147 on the 122 hookup from the A100 I was not comfortable with doing that since I believed that the 147 was specific to one G signal and Ground set up If it is just as easy to plug the 147 in to the 122 hook up then I can quickly rule it out or in as the problem maker?

Think I will order up the tranny for the B3 sounds Like a great idea to max up the out put.

I have the better iron from weller but in this case I used my old style gun grip weller because I needed more heat - at least I thought I did . The picture was the original too big globs etc does not look like that now That I removed the Pre amp and re installed it.

[enor]

No you cannot plug a 147 into a 122 outlet! They are not pin compatible even though they look similar.