Follow Up Question Regarding C-3 Versus A-100

[Doctor Robert]

First off, thank goodness for the organ forum! What an invaluable resource!

Now, to my question. If you were to remove accompanying tone cabinets and Leslie speakers from the equation, and all things being equal as to condition, year manufactured, and price, etc., which is more desirable (and valuable), the C-3 or the A-100? My understanding is that the B-3, C-3, A-100 and even the D-100 are essentially the same organ, differing only in cabinet housing and speakers (or lack of thereof). True? And ignoring the B-3, which do you own--or prefer--between the C-3, A-100 and D-100, and why? Thanks! :-)

[David Anderson]

When it gets down to this level of comparison, I'd pick the organ that plays/sounds the best. There's only a certain amount of choice you can make in the abstract.

I do know that an A-100 was made between 1959 and 1965, while a C-3 could be 1955 to 1975, and there are some considerations based on production era.

[skydawg]

You`re obviously getting more bang for the buck with an A100 or D100,ie,powered speakers w/reverb.The organs are all identical,save the 32 note pedalboard on the D,which you already have on your RT.

[KeithB]

If I were deciding between those, I'd pick the A100 just from space considerations.

It might be just perception, but the C model just looks like it's heavier, more difficult to move, belongs somewhere permanent.

[enor]

If I were deciding between those, I'd pick the A100 just from space considerations.

It might be just perception, but the C model just looks like it's heavier, more difficult to move, belongs somewhere permanent.

It's not just perception. :)

[JoeyB3]

If you were to remove accompanying tone cabinets and Leslie speakers from the equation, and all things being equal as to condition, year manufactured, and price, etc., which is more desirable (and valuable), the C-3 or the A-100? :-)

To answer the exact question posed, based on the parameters the OP provides....valuable from a $$ will almost always be the C3 over an A100. "Desirable" will likely depend on the purpose: the gigging musician should opt for the A100, while an organ to be placed in a stationery spot (ie: home, church) would probably prefer the C3.

[Bobmann]

If I were deciding between those, I'd pick the A100 just from space considerations.

It might be just perception, but the C model just looks like it's heavier, more difficult to move, belongs somewhere permanent.

It is perception.
The A100 is indeed slightly smaller in size, but only a couple inches in depth, the width is the same. The A100 is about 1/2" shorter in height.
The footprint of the A100 and C with the pedals and bench in place is almost the same width and the C is only a couple inches more in depth. Too small a difference unless you have to measure space available to the nearest fraction of an inch.

I have moved many of both of these, and the A100 feels heavier. I attribute this to the added weight of the amps and speakers which the C does not have.
I know the published specs have the A100 as being heavier by 50 lbs, that is total weight for organ, pedals and bench...half of that added weight is the larger bench of the C.
Point is that there is not that much difference in weight to be a factor in moving or size as a factor for placement.

The main point is that there is no answer to the original question, at least not one unanamous consensus of opinion. Everyone will have a favorite model based on their own preference and what they own.
I have had virtually every model in my shop at one point in time, from RT3, B & C 2 and 3, D, BC, BV, CV, H, and on and on, and could have kept any one of them. The one Hammond that I have in the living room that I enjoy is a C2/Leslie 122. I also have an H385 that I like as well. Although I have not restored it yet, I have a Model A that I may like even more...time will tell.

You must play the organ to see how it feels and sounds to you. Every one feels and sounds different, even 2 organs that are the same model will not sound the same.

Also the qualification of "value" must be clarified. If you are looking at resale value it is one thing, if you plan to keep the organ, then $$ is irellevant.

Just my opinion.

Bob

[JoeyB3]

And ignoring the B-3, which do you own--or prefer--between the C-3, A-100 and D-100, and why? Thanks! :-)

I have (or had) 2 B3s, a C3, and A100. They all sounded different. The best sounding was (is) my 58 B3. My '57 C3 I did not care for at all, so I sold it. The A100 was kinda in the middle, but I sold that as well. So, like other's have said....they all share the same innards, but they will sound different and what you prefer depends on what you intend on using it for.

[Doctor Robert]

I wonder if the difference in sound between models might be attributed to the condition and brand of tubes??

[JoeyB3]

I wonder if the difference in sound between models might be attributed to the condition and brand of tubes??

There are many factors...but it is important to understand that every one of these organs also sounded different from one another coming straight out of the showroom. Age plays its part, but it is an inherent result of the design of the instrument. The model is not really a deciding factor, as all models of each generation shared the same basic internals. Some internals were also shared across generations.

[David Anderson]

I wonder if the difference in sound between models might be attributed to the condition and brand of tubes??

That's why I mentioned the condition of the organ. Each organ is a collection of a lot of small parts, and small differences can add up. We can speculate all day long about what makes one sound better than another. Some have tone generators that need to be recapped. Some don't. Some have preamps that have been rebuilt. Some have all-original preamps. Some might have worn-out tubes.

And components changed over the years. Hammond changed sources of parts several times over the period of 3-series organ production. So, while a 1955 C-3 and a 1975 C-3 are the same model organ, they're not exactly the same.

[KeithB]

It is perception.
The A100 is indeed slightly smaller in size, but only a couple inches in depth, the width is the same. The A100 is about 1/2" shorter in height.
The footprint of the A100 and C with the pedals and bench in place is almost the same width and the C is only a couple inches more in depth. Too small a difference unless you have to measure space available to the nearest fraction of an inch.

I have moved many of both of these, and the A100 feels heavier. I attribute this to the added weight of the amps and speakers which the C does not have.
I know the published specs have the A100 as being heavier by 50 lbs, that is total weight for organ, pedals and bench...half of that added weight is the larger bench of the C.
Point is that there is not that much difference in weight to be a factor in moving or size as a factor for placement.

The main point is that there is no answer to the original question, at least not one unanamous consensus of opinion. Everyone will have a favorite model based on their own preference and what they own.
I have had virtually every model in my shop at one point in time, from RT3, B & C 2 and 3, D, BC, BV, CV, H, and on and on, and could have kept any one of them. The one Hammond that I have in the living room that I enjoy is a C2/Leslie 122. I also have an H385 that I like as well. Although I have not restored it yet, I have a Model A that I may like even more...time will tell.

You must play the organ to see how it feels and sounds to you. Every one feels and sounds different, even 2 organs that are the same model will not sound the same.

Also the qualification of "value" must be clarified. If you are looking at resale value it is one thing, if you plan to keep the organ, then $$ is irellevant.

Just my opinion.

Bob

Just to clarify, I was thinking about space from the stand point that a C3 needs some kind of external speaker cabinet, whereas the A100 is completely self-contained. If you add a Leslie, then space consideration is the same.

[Tonewheel]

I think that David has hit the nail on the head. It has a lot to do with tone. If you pick 888 upper manual and C3, 848 lower manual, playing bass left hand and comping with right, and comparing both organs, and if you can remember the difference between the two rigs you are looking at, there just might be enough of a difference for you to make a selection that you will be really happy with. You might want to listen to the A100 through the internal speakers only for a true attempt at comparison, because the Leslie really will influence you.

After I got my 55 B3, I tried a newer model B3 that a friend has. I liked the tone of his percussion, and I couldn't quite duplicate the woodiness on mine, so I had a pot across the percussion resistor, and I could dial in the tone I wanted. So there was a difference that was quite obvious between the two. I liked my Chorus sound better, however.

Having said all of this, the A100 with a nice Leslie 147 should make you so addicted to it that you will be playing this thing at all hours. Kind of like the guy in the ad who takes out a cup of coffee a few times a day just to look at his John Deere ride-on...

[JoeyB3]

Once again, a thread has veered off it's original topic (which is fine...I just always find it amusing).

I love it when someone posts a question and it is followed by opinions and discussions about what should or shouldn't be done instead of simply answering the question, and debating THAT question.

For example..."I'm going to chop my B3....what would be the best way to connect the expression pedal?"
That is followed by a number of people chiming in saying "You shouldn't chop the organ!"
But he didn't ask if he should or shouldn't!!
Then the thread turns into a chop vs. not to chop debate. Tempers rise, people insult, others get insulted. And the original question never gets answered. I find it very funny.

At the start of this thread...it had NOTHING to do with the differences in sonic qualities. That was derailed with the first response. By the 3rd response, it veered to space considerations. By the time we reach the reply before this one, we have ventured into the psychological aspects of playing through a certain combo.

Great stuff....

[geoelectro]

"I'm going to chop my B3....what would be the best way to connect the expression pedal?"

Don't do it Joey....just don't. :)

Geo