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  • R100 series 7-pin / 5-pin Tone Cabinet socket

    Greetings,
    I'm looking for any information regarding the tone cabinet socket on an R122. It's labeled "Tone Cab" on the amp chassis. It has 7 position; 5 female and 2 male. I understand that the male pins were meant to make it awkward to connect a Leslie - in favor of a Hammond Tone Cabinet. But the pins also mean that the corresponding plug will only fit in one way round - there isn't the central notched post used to orient the Leslie connectors (Are these called "Amphenol" plugs / sockets?).

    I'm primarily wanting to connect an 11 pin Leslie cabinet (HL722) which has rotary and static inputs.

    Questions:
    What are the signals on each pin of the tone cabinet socket? Any what is the numbering of the pins? I'm assuming there's one or more audio outputs, but are there any control signals? e.g. fast / slow, power on / off.
    Where can I get the corresponding plug for this tone cabinet output or is there a (cheap) work around? I know there are specially designed "Kits", but they're not in my budget range.

    It looks fairly simple to construct a fast / slow switch for the Leslie cabinet by using a switch to short the appropriate pins to earth for the fast (pin 7) and slow (Pin 8) motors. I looking at a telecaster style 3 position switch, which can be wired to give a center "off" position.

    Any advice / tips are most welcome.

  • #2
    I guess the tone cabinet socket was throwback to the E, from which the R was 'developed'. By the time of the R, Hammond and Leslie were buddies and the R has the Rotosonic unit built in, of course. But if you plugged a tone cabinet into that socket, you'd have no animation at all as the R has no vibrato!

    Given that the leslie would like to be driven at speaker level, it would probably make more sense to build a kit to do the job properly. AC is supplied directly to the leslie, which just leaves two hot audio signals (which would need to be switched with a suitable 3 way switch to give Main/Ensemble/Echo functionality), a ground (taken from the ground side of one of the speakers, and the switched ground to pin 7 or 8. Finally there's a voltage that kicks in the power relay in the leslie so you have remote on/off switching from the organ.

    You're looking at creating a 'standard' kit for 11 pin leslies - something like this one: http://www.fishorgans.com/leslie_kits/007953_kit.pdf There may well be a better 2 channel, 11 pin kit shown on the main page: http://www.fishorgans.com/leslie_kits/

    The combo of R100 and HL722 will sound good.
    It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

    New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

    Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
    Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
    Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
    Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

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    • #3
      Re:your above question - What are the signals on each pin of the tone cabinet socket? Any what is the numbering of the pins?

      The socket is to accommodate a Series 10 Hammond Tone cabinet. Pin-outs are shown on here.
      ;

      http://www.captain-foldback.com/Leslie_sub/pinouts.htm
      Have: Hammond 340212 Elegante
      Had: Hammond T-311 and 333114 Colonnade
      Never will have: Laurens Hammond 350 w/ 2 - 751 Leslies

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you both for those links. The Kit looks a bit complicated for me / what I had in mind. The pinouts page is a great resource.

        Since my original post, I've been looking through the schematics in the R100 service manual (sorry, I really should have done this first) and I've found the Tone Cab Plug on the circuit diagram with pin numbers etc. It's on page 58/135, also need to refer to pages 54 to 57 to follow the signal. I got the service manual from here:
        https://ia802300.us.archive.org/11/i...e%20Manual.pdf

        Please correct me if any of the following is wrong but I don't think the tone cabinet socket is going to be the best source of a signal to feed to the HL-722. Firstly it comes after the power amp, so it's a high level / speaker level signal and not compatible with the line level input of the HL-722 (which has it's own internal amplifiers). I'm tempted to make a voltage divider circuit, perhaps including a pot to give a variable output more suitable for the HL-722's input, but another problem with the "tone Cab" output is that the Leslie feed on pin 7 has been high pass filtered to play through the rotosonic 6x9" speaker built in to the R100, with the lower frequencies being split off and sent to the main amplifier (that feeds the built-in 15" woofer) and on to pin 1 of the "tone cab" output. So to get a full range rotary signal, it is necessary to combine the outputs of pin 1 and pin 7 to feed the Rotary channel input of the HL722 - the top end would come from pin 7 and the bass from pin 1. This would work, but it would no longer be possible to have a rotary channel and a separate static channel at the same time, which the HL722 can accommodate. E.g. upper manual to leslie, lower manual to main (static) or reverb to main / rotary switchable which is a great feature, or having the Rhythm II unit going only to the static channel of the 722.

        I think it may be possible to tap the signals near to the input of the Power amplifiers, after the reverb and Rhythm II inputs but before the active filter. Possible pin 5 and 11 on the Power amplifier board 124-000162 (page 56 of the service manual). I need to look in to it further and scope those pins to see what sort of signal is there.

        Another thing that concerned me with the tone cab output was the presence of mains voltage on two of the pins and the possibility of accidentally inserting into the wrong hole - as I don't have the corresponding plug for that socket.

        Comment


        • #5
          The HL722 is quite happy to be driven at speaker level input. They are designed that way. When you connect it up and set the volume levels you'll always start from zero, of course!

          You won't ever get a 'full range rotary signal' out of the 722, it has exactly the same 6x9 Rotosonic unit as the R100, and if you do send a full range signal to its leslie channel, the 722 will do exactly the same thing as the organ does, sending the bass to its 15" woofer instead of the 6x9 in the Rotosonic. So what you have in mind above would be a waste of time and effort! So you may as well build that kit! It's less rocket science than you think and probably easier than what you were thinking of. Send the main signal to the Leslie's straight channel and the leslie signal to the Leslie's rotary channel. If you look at the circuit for a main/ensemble/echo switch you'll see how the audio is routed through it. Then a ground wire and the speed switching grounds.

          Leave the tone cabinet socket alone for what it is, an unusable throwback to a previous era!

          Just to clarify, what you end up with is this:
          R100 Main channel goes to HL722 stationary channel (complete with the low end of the Leslie channel)
          R100 Leslie channel - mid and high end goes to the HL722 rotary channel.

          The big benefits are the increase in output power and, of course, the treble horn rotors in the rotary channel. The Rotosonic will still take an age to change speed, of course, but it's rather masked by the facts that you have the highs running through the horn and the extreme bass being static.
          It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

          New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

          Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha Genos, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
          Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
          Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
          Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes, you're right, after printing it out on a large sheet of paper and studying it, the circuit diagram of the kit doesn't look so bad - and I would only need a 2 channel version, so I could use a double pole, double throw switch (on, off, on) for the Echo Switch. [Edit: Incorrect that's the wrong type of switch, the middle position needs to be on as well, but I can't find any of these in a toggle format, so I'm going to use a 4 pole rotary switch - 3 positions would be enough for organ speakers / both / external leslie speaker, but more positions could be used for other combinations e.g. "main" going to organ speaker and external leslie, with the "leslie" feed going to the external leslie speaker only - so for the manuals sent to "leslie" (on the organ tabs) this would give extra bass from the organ's internal 15" driver (but without the internal Rotosonic) plus the external Leslie cab.]
            I'll need to make up the multicore lead as well, to connect to the 722. Is there a recommended multicore cable for this job and do you know how readily available the 11-pin male plugs are? The only ones I've found so far (ebay) are in the USA and pretty expensive with high postage costs + VAT. The sockets are easy to find as 11-pin relay sockets (
            Last edited by Saltech; 01-04-2019, 07:17 AM. Reason: Edited for errors and afterthoughts.

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