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  • Changing bass notes

    wondering if there is an easy way to get the bass notes from either the foot board or the lower keyboard to sound more like a standup bass with a rather sharp decay and more of the plunk sound a real base gives. But to do this more by changing caps and resisters than adding say a synth to the system? like Barbara did
    Practise the theory...realize the practical
    Hammonds L100 /A100 /B3 Leslie 147 and 122 Yamaha E352 Key board driven in OVATIONS 15" 40 watt power

  • #2
    Short but thorough answer: No. The sound of the tonewheels is what it is.
    Current organs: AV, M-3, A-100
    Current Leslies: 22H, 122, 770

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't know.... throughout the 60s there were String Bass attachments. I think I have an old CV with one -- hafta check.

      Envelope follower --> Filter Q --> Out. Not tough, really. Basically a percussion circuit for the pedals. I mean it ain't gonna fool anyone with real ears but it sounds different than tonewheel switching.

      Comment


      • #4
        Trek II makes a string bass add-on. I just had one in my shop and it really sounds good. It's not easy as the OP suggested but there aren't many options.

        Geo

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tiredoldgeezer View Post
          I don't know.... throughout the 60s there were String Bass attachments. I think I have an old CV with one -- hafta check.

          Envelope follower --> Filter Q --> Out. Not tough, really. Basically a percussion circuit for the pedals. I mean it ain't gonna fool anyone with real ears but it sounds different than tonewheel switching.
          Agreed, but that's far more involved than the "changing caps and resistors" that the OP was talking about.
          Current organs: AV, M-3, A-100
          Current Leslies: 22H, 122, 770

          Comment


          • #6
            In an AC-keyed system like the Hammond,there`s no decay possible,without some sort of gating or latching,ala the H100.The signal is either on or it`s off.There were aftermarket add ons,I don`t know what`s available now.

            Comment


            • #7
              I always had a Trek ii string bass unit wired directly into the pedal switch, and found that using it in conjunction with the organ's pedal drawbars produced various effects. A little 16' gave a deep, unsustained thump while a little 8' provided a unique kind of treble emphasis. I also always used a PR40 to bring out not only the deep sustained voices but also the treble aspect when using the 8' DB over the string bass tones.
              Over the years: Hammond M3, BC, M102, B3, four X77s and three PR-40s, a Thomas Electra and a Celebrity, three Fender Rhodes, Roland HS-10, HP-2000, HP-600, RD-600, JV-880, a thing made by Korg (?), two Leslie 910s, 122, 257, 258, 247, two 142s, and three custom-built Leslies. Wow, way too much money spent!

              Comment


              • #8
                I added a Trek II String Bass to my B3. My installation is different as I have the standard Hammond 16 ft. and 8 ft. pedal tones available in addition to the Trek II 16 ft. and 8 ft. string bass tones. There is a total of 4 drawbars for control of pedal tones. The description of my installation is in this Hammond Wiki link:

                http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/T...mondPedalTones

                John M.
                1956 Hammond B3
                1963 Leslie 122
                Two Pr40’s
                One JR-20 (for fluid reverb signal)
                Hamptone LEQ3B
                Trek II Reverb
                Trek II String Bass

                Comment


                • Hamman
                  Hamman commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Now that is a slick set up! Would love to do that in addition to the "Mo' Bass" unit I already have!

              • #9
                Hey John I like that option, from wiki I understand you have the option of running the string base in the lower manual or on the pedals using a switch like say if playing a walking style base line in a three piece you would switch to lower manual and with the selection key depressed only the TREKII - where did you mount the sd switching ?

                I have never heard the Trek II string bass - anyplace I can go have alisten maybe a recording of it some where like utube?
                good option if resisters and caps cant make the change

                Thanks
                Practise the theory...realize the practical
                Hammonds L100 /A100 /B3 Leslie 147 and 122 Yamaha E352 Key board driven in OVATIONS 15" 40 watt power

                Comment


                • #10
                  PGR,

                  Maybe my wiki article was a little confusing when I made reference to the lower manual and presets.

                  Two things I wanted to change about a "standard Trek II installation. The Trek II replaces the original 16' and 8' Hammond Pedal tones with its design of Pedal tones, and Pluck/Sustain circuits. The output from the Trek II goes to the Hammond 16' and 8' drawbars (existing Hammond wires are removed on the 16' and 8' drawbars). The input to the Trek II uses Hammond pedal contacts by removing 25 wires that go from the Hammond TG to the pedals.

                  I wanted to keep the existing Hammond pedal tones while adding the Trek II string bass tones. For the Trek II inputs I triggered the 25 pedal inputs using external contacts that I mounted to the bottom of my pedal board (see photo on wiki site). For the 16' and 8' Trek II outputs, I needed two more drawbars. The two drawbars I decided to use were the 16 ft and 5 1/3 ft lower manual drawbars associated with the white “Bb” preset. This way I had control of the 4 pedal drawbars next to each other. Pedal tone selection can be: the original Hammond only, Trek II only, or any 4 drawbar combination of the two. If a registration on the lower manual is desired using the 16 ft and 5 1/3 ft drawbars, the black “B” preset should be used.

                  In summary, all pedal tones are sounded via the pedals. No tones go to any lower manual playing keys. The only thing used from the lower manual are the 16 ft and 5 1/3 ft drawbars associated with the white "Bb" preset.

                  The Trek II string bass adds a lot. Besides sustain, the tones are deeper than the Hammond, as the upper harmonics are not added in. I thought the "Pluck" on the Trek II was not very noticeable. I talked to Mike at Trek II. He gave me a simple change to the circuit on the Trek II board. The change results in a very sharp/fast attack with a decay to zero tone. It behaves much like the upper manual percussion when all the drawbars are set to "zero". It is truly a percussive bass. I can also switch back to normal Trek II operation.

                  Off hand, I don't know of any Trek II recordings. If you are ever in the Cleveland/Akron area let me know and you can listen to my Trek II. I see you are in Brantford, Ont. I used to go fishing every year with my dad who built a cottage on the Trent river in Campbellford. That was farther North than you are. If I remember it was about a 6 hour drive.

                  John M.
                  1956 Hammond B3
                  1963 Leslie 122
                  Two Pr40’s
                  One JR-20 (for fluid reverb signal)
                  Hamptone LEQ3B
                  Trek II Reverb
                  Trek II String Bass

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Hey John,

                    Cleveland is not too far - remember diving there for my daughters soccer team to play soccer We were on the south west side of Cleveland too. but Campbellford is a long ay up the Trent. good fishing too. One of the reasons I came to Brantford is the best natural trout fishing river in southern ont. hookless fly fishing only a real challenge

                    I'm sitting here at the PC thinking about your re explanation clearing up my thoughts ...Don't know that this is what I was looking for . Have to think some more on this but the idea of having two contacts per peddle triggers some thoughts and one is ...what if instead of the extra contact on the peddles they were moved to one of those useless pre programmed keys on the far left lower manual , but the actual contact for the TRek II string bass was on the lower two octaves of the lower manual - soldiered to the resistance wire on the appropriate key...maybe? I don't know still thinking and perhaps this is too deep a change it sure is a long way past changing up a cap or resister or two.
                    Practise the theory...realize the practical
                    Hammonds L100 /A100 /B3 Leslie 147 and 122 Yamaha E352 Key board driven in OVATIONS 15" 40 watt power

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      The reverse colored preset keys won't accomplish what you are trying to do. Think of each preset key as another set of nine drawbars except they are hardwired to obtain a certain drawbar setting. A preset setting can be changed at the "hardwired" panel at the back of the console at the starting motor end of the console.

                      To trigger the string bass via a playing key you would have to get into the wiring of the lower manual to use one of the 9 key contacts that are under each key. One harmonic drawbar would also be lost to accomplish the triggering of the string bass. This is exactly what Hammond did when they came out with the percussion on the B3. The 9th harmonic drawbar is not available since the key contact used to trigger the percussion. When the percussion is OFF, the 9th harmonic returns.

                      John M.
                      1956 Hammond B3
                      1963 Leslie 122
                      Two Pr40’s
                      One JR-20 (for fluid reverb signal)
                      Hamptone LEQ3B
                      Trek II Reverb
                      Trek II String Bass

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by MihevicB3 View Post
                        PGR,

                        Maybe my wiki article was a little confusing when I made reference to the lower manual and presets.

                        Two things I wanted to change about a "standard Trek II installation. The Trek II replaces the original 16' and 8' Hammond Pedal tones with its design of Pedal tones, and Pluck/Sustain circuits. The output from the Trek II goes to the Hammond 16' and 8' drawbars (existing Hammond wires are removed on the 16' and 8' drawbars). The input to the Trek II uses Hammond pedal contacts by removing 25 wires that go from the Hammond TG to the pedals.

                        I wanted to keep the existing Hammond pedal tones while adding the Trek II string bass tones. For the Trek II inputs I triggered the 25 pedal inputs using external contacts that I mounted to the bottom of my pedal board (see photo on wiki site). For the 16' and 8' Trek II outputs, I needed two more drawbars. The two drawbars I decided to use were the 16 ft and 5 1/3 ft lower manual drawbars associated with the white “Bb” preset. This way I had control of the 4 pedal drawbars next to each other. Pedal tone selection can be: the original Hammond only, Trek II only, or any 4 drawbar combination of the two. If a registration on the lower manual is desired using the 16 ft and 5 1/3 ft drawbars, the black “B” preset should be used.

                        In summary, all pedal tones are sounded via the pedals. No tones go to any lower manual playing keys. The only thing used from the lower manual are the 16 ft and 5 1/3 ft drawbars associated with the white "Bb" preset.

                        The Trek II string bass adds a lot. Besides sustain, the tones are deeper than the Hammond, as the upper harmonics are not added in. I thought the "Pluck" on the Trek II was not very noticeable. I talked to Mike at Trek II. He gave me a simple change to the circuit on the Trek II board. The change results in a very sharp/fast attack with a decay to zero tone. It behaves much like the upper manual percussion when all the drawbars are set to "zero". It is truly a percussive bass. I can also switch back to normal Trek II operation.

                        Off hand, I don't know of any Trek II recordings. If you are ever in the Cleveland/Akron area let me know and you can listen to my Trek II. I see you are in Brantford, Ont. I used to go fishing every year with my dad who built a cottage on the Trent river in Campbellford. That was farther North than you are. If I remember it was about a 6 hour drive.

                        John M.
                        Id love to know about the mod Mike gave you for the fast attack on the string bass unit.
                        Over the years: Hammond M3, BC, M102, B3, four X77s and three PR-40s, a Thomas Electra and a Celebrity, three Fender Rhodes, Roland HS-10, HP-2000, HP-600, RD-600, JV-880, a thing made by Korg (?), two Leslie 910s, 122, 257, 258, 247, two 142s, and three custom-built Leslies. Wow, way too much money spent!

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          I've built several keyer boards for customers who wanted added effects on either the manuals or pedals that used one of the existing contact sets. I've built these boards to MIDI the upper or lower manual, for instance, and also to add the trek II string bass unit to the lower manual from C1 to C3. The keyer boards use CD4066 bilateral switch ICs and are designed to not only key whatever the effect is, but also to restore whatever frequency was lost by using the contact set. I'd be happy to share the designs which are done using the free software from www.expresspcb.com. Just be advised that tying into a set of contacts in either the manuals or the pedals is pretty invasive and takes some skill and patience.
                          As an example, I designed a keyer board for a customer who wanted to MIDI the upper manual of his C3. I used the 1 1/3' contact set and those frequencies are then returned by the keyers. The same principal would be used for the pedals. In fact, the same fellow has a Trek II SB2500 string bass unit, which is wired directly into the pedal switch, and I built a keyer board for him that not only triggered the string bass, but also MIDI'd the pedals. The same idea can be used if you're wanting to trigger the string bass from the lower manual. Yes, you would need to open up the manual, choose a contact set, carefully cut the existing resistance wire, tin the contact, and then solder a new wire onto it. These wires--should be 25 in all, probably C1 to C3--would then connect to a keyer board. The keyer circuits would then trigger the string bass and also return the lost drawbar frequency. PM me if you want to discuss this further. Happy to help. Bruce
                          Over the years: Hammond M3, BC, M102, B3, four X77s and three PR-40s, a Thomas Electra and a Celebrity, three Fender Rhodes, Roland HS-10, HP-2000, HP-600, RD-600, JV-880, a thing made by Korg (?), two Leslie 910s, 122, 257, 258, 247, two 142s, and three custom-built Leslies. Wow, way too much money spent!

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Bruce,

                            Here's info on the mod to get percussive bass on the Trek II unit.

                            To get a percussive bass, it is required to shut off the sustain tone. To do this, insert a 1K resistor from -12V to the junction of R64/Q2. The tone will now start and decay to zero when a pedal is depressed. To increase the decay time, insert a capacitor in parallel with C22. To increase the volume of the percussive bass sound, decrease the values of R59 and R55. I put 1K resistors in parallel with R59 and R55.

                            I wanted to maintain the stock string bass configuration while adding the percussive bass. I used relays and a switch to change between the two modes of operation. If you want more detail or have any questions, send me a PM.

                            John M.
                            1956 Hammond B3
                            1963 Leslie 122
                            Two Pr40’s
                            One JR-20 (for fluid reverb signal)
                            Hamptone LEQ3B
                            Trek II Reverb
                            Trek II String Bass

                            Comment

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