21H for my B3

[Tonewheel]

I have just found a 21H Leslie for my B3. I already have a 21H paired with a 147, quite the feat, and the two complement each other in different ways. My question is: Is it better to have 2 21H's (I'll get the conversion kit to 2-speed) than what I have now? This may be very subjective, but I would appreciate opinions. The 147 can go to our cabin with an A100 that is paired with a Leslie 205 that is weird.

This unit has been wired for guitar, and it is a bit scratched up, and the bass speaker is a replacement, not that nice square coil. But it is $200 Canadian, and it works. Should I buy it? Thanks.

[handyczech]

I could be wrong, but I think the 21H only had one row of treble louvers. I think this is a 22H. Different amplifier and 2 different braking systems, depending on the serial numbers. As a result, there may be some analysis needed to get them to function correctly as far as the MEE and tremolo kits needed.

[tpappano]

My 21H has the single row of louvers...

[Tonewheel]

HC, you are right! The fellow selling it sad that he made a mistake in the advertisement. Isn't the 22H better, though?

[enor]

HC, you are right! The fellow selling it sad that he made a mistake in the advertisement. Isn't the 22H better, though?

That's purely a matter of taste. Both models are excellent! (But the 21H is my personal favorite of all Leslies).

[handyczech]

The 21H I used to have was not altered in any way. Being one speed, it went fast or coasted to off, which took a few seconds. The 22H which I have now required considerable physical and electrical renovation to bring it back. All the 22H had built in braking so there is very little coasting to stop. The early serial numbers had one style braking circuit, later ones a different type.

The 22H evolved directly to the 122, which of course had 2 motors per rotor, hence 2 speed. My 22H had ghastly been botched by removing wires to cancel the internal braking and a poor 2-speed modifier. At point of purchase, the unit behaved erratically regarding speed, and made strange pulsating noises in the audio. After replacing all tubes and capacitors and resisters, restoring the brake circuit, all thanks to Tonewheel General, and buying the correct kit components and service manual on ebay. it works as it did in the past, as it should.

The 15 inch speaker in the 21H may also have been electro dynamic, whereas the 22H has a permanent magnet, but both the housings were round, Square magnets came later and their presence in and older cabinet may indicate a newer replacement.

Get a service manual for both, searching on ebay. Be prepared to work with TGH to get the right stuff for the internals. After reading the service manual, determine what components you need to set up Main-Ensemble-Echo kit (one speaker or the other or both), and look for those items on ebay or TGH.

Retro 2-speed kits that will synch with both is beyond my advisory capability.

[Tonewheel]

These comments are all very helpful. Enor, I love the overall sound of my 21H, with the only modification being conversion to 2 speed. It's on my left. The 147 is to my right, and it has quite beautiful bass. HC, this helps me to be a bit wary. The seller, 120 miles away, sent me a couple of new photos. See what you think. Water marks on the back wall instructions. Someone removed the Lesle plugs. He says that the units do not rotate because he may have "plugged the wires in wrong." He has made a sound file which he says is good but doesn't know how to send it. I told him to get an extension cord and unplug the motors from the amp and plug one at time into the extension cord. That should tell me if the motors are working. It's possible I may need to follow the same path of restoration as you. Thanks for the advice so far.

[enor]

Well, the amp needs a total rebuild. The input connectors have been exchanged for something very strange, and the fuse holder is obviously broken and loose which would make me VERY wary of plugging the thing in, out of fear for a short. But an amp that old should be totally rebuilt anyway, so that's a non issue. Otherwise it looks ok to me!

That's very likely the original woofer, by the way. Would be interesting to see if the stock treble driver is also present.

[handyczech]

This is like a house. If the foundation is solid, the rest can be fixed. The amp should be regarded, as has been said , as a top-to-bottom rebuilding and restoring. The cabinet is much better than mine was (rustoleum black). A rotted floor or missing backs can be replaced with new from TGH. If you wish, Rick at TGH can rebuild or exchange for a rebuilt amp. If the cabinet Is solid and the bass speaker is not blown,the treble driver works, depending on how much you can do I would figure $500-700 US to get the amp done outside. Then there is the kit cost, and 2-speed conversion for both, if you feel the need for that.

[Tonewheel]

Thanks, HC and Enor. Food for thought. If it seems too good to be true, it is!

[enor]

What do you mean, "too good to be true"? 200 for that thing sounds like an amazing deal to me

[Tonewheel]

It sure beats Euros! 200 Canadian is 137 Euros. We are in Frankfurt for a few more months, and the exchange is killing us. :->

I was thinking that if it costs 600 to redo the amp, another 200 for the cord, 250 for 2 speed conversion, maybe 200 for motor and moon switch, then it's 1400 Canadian. My reflex is just to buy it, even for parts (not for anyone else, but for my Leslies! (This is why there are likely many in the forum whose wives are less than thrilled with a whole collection of organs and Leslies here and there around the premises).

The seller is sending me a sound sample. He is trying to get the motors running because he said he wired them wrong, whatever that means.

But if it works, then perhaps I'll stick with the 21H 2 speed and 147 paired to the B3, and replace the 205, currently paired with the A100 at the cabin, with the 22H converted to 2 speed.

Now the 205, THAT is a strange beast. It is in a small log cabin, and it all sounds good with the wood in the room. But the 22H should be far better, right?

[handyczech]

There is an unrestored 22H available north of Chicago for $1499.00 by a regular reseller. The one I bought was asking $1200, lowered to $800 after a year, and settled at $700, which was still too much. It required complete stripping, new reproduction bottom, and all 3 back panels, hardware, decal, and complete rebuilding of the amp and replacement of tubes, belts, rebuilding the lower wood rotor. Bass speaker had 2 small tears, which stabilized with a smear of silicone, and a newer Suzuki driver. Was this economically a good deal? Probably not. It looks and sounds great, and I like it. Most of us who are trying to save "orphans" like this may not make decisions that are economically viable. With the current pricing of new and used Leslie speakers, I would probably jump at this willingly myself.

[Tonewheel]

Sorry for taking so long to respond. I bit. But it's back in Canada while I'm here in Europe for 3 more months. Let you know what I find. These comments are all helpful.