Leslie kit for My M111 and other questions: please respond ASAP!

[Guest]

Hi guys.



Tomorrow I'll be checking out a Leslie 45, converted to a 145 and hooked to an M3.



The deal would include the organ (that I maybe donating to the church=I
have an M111) and the Leslie, plus the Leslie kit and Leslie cable plus
1 half moon switch.(Tremelo-Chorale)



The Leslie amp was re tubbed and recapped and I some questions:



1) Is the Leslie kit installed on the M3 compatible with my M111? I
read somewhere that a resistor must be installed somewhere on the organ
speakers,blah,blah. The thing is that the M3 has only 1 speaker and the
M111 has 2x12".(plus the 8" reverb speaker)-Do I need to solder?



2) The amp, according to the owner, reads: Leslie 47 amp: is it the same as the 147 amp? If not, what would be the difference?





Please, enlighten me.



Thanks

[Guest]

Re: Leslie kit for My M111 and other questions: please respond ASAP!



1) It should be compatible if you don't mind the reverb not coming though the leslie. Be prepared to solder to get it right.
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2) 47 had tremolo and stop speeds. 147 has tremolo and chorale. With a few minor differences, the amps are essentially the same.
</p>

[Hammond101]

Re: Leslie kit for My M111 and other questions: please respond ASAP!



1) The Leslie 47 ampshould have a load switch right next to the volune control. set it to 8 ohms and you should be fine without a seperate load resistor. I would wire the leslie to the main speakers of the M111 so the reverb plays through the reverb speaker as normal. The MEE switch then would only control console speaker/console speaker and Leslie/Leslie only. You would have reverb only when selected from the console tablet and only from the 8" reverb speaker. Not knowing what kit is included I am making some guesses here.</P>


2) The 47 and 147 amps are basically the same. There are two ways of converting to two speed. Rewiring the amp for slow motors and adding two speed motor stacks to the cabinet or by simply adding a two speed kit or controller such as the Carribean Controls unit. Until you see inside you won't know which was done. Either way, wiring is the same.</P>

[Guest]

Re: Leslie kit for My M111 and other questions: please respond ASAP!



Hi, and thanks for your quick response.</p>

As I said before, the guy replaced the original motors with 2 Chorale / Tremelo motors thus he is not using the internal amp and speaker from the organ.(M3)</p>


I'm soooo confused, got more questions.</p>

1) With his configuration (only 1 switch) I will be able to have either slow or fast speeds, right? If I want to play Jazz, ie, I read I can unplug the slow motors and when the switch is hit, I will go to tremelo: is this accurate?</p>

2) If I bypass the internal M111 speakers to connect his kit, the bass from the pedals will be coming from...the Leslie or the M111 amp and speakers?</p>

3) What about the resistor thingy I should be careful about?
</p>

Thanks and sorry for my ignorance.

</p>

[Guest]

Re: Leslie kit for My M111 and other questions: please respond ASAP!



Sorry, I assumed he replaced the motors and didn't know there are so many options: I will check tomorrow but the "effect" would be the same with any of the 2 speed options or there's a trade off?</p>

</p>

You guys rock:Thanks</p>

[Hammond101]

Re: Leslie kit for My M111 and other questions: please respond ASAP!



Well I'm confused too. If the "only one switch" means you will only have a chorale/tremolo control you will need to keep the M111 speakers running all the time. It would be desirable anyway IMHO. In this case you would set the load resistor on the 47 amp to "open". If you do not have a MEE switch you only have two options for M111 speakers, on all the time or off all the time plus reverb. With the latter you need to engage the leslie load switch to 8 Ohms.</P>


I don't see any reason you could not disconnect the slow motors if equipped and have a stop/highspeed cab just like an original 45. If there is an aftermarket 2 speed kit in the cab it can be set (possibly) for a stop position instead of slow in most cases. The only one I have experience with is the Carribean unit and that is the way it works. Personally I like chorale Leslie effect and would not defeat it unless I could switch it from the console.</P>


H101</P>

[Hammond101]

Re: Leslie kit for My M111 and other questions: please respond ASAP!



Sorry bubus, I forgot about your bass pedal question. The pedals are mixed with the manuals on a M111 so the sound will be combined at the main (console) speakers or Leslie depending on what you select or wire up as a speaker for the rig. The 45/145 has a nice 15" woofer with a crossover and handles bass very nicely.</P>


H101</P>

[Guest]

Re: Leslie kit for My M111 and other questions: please respond ASAP!

Sooo...the bass pedals will sound with "motion? (Chorale and Tremelo) That is not good and is unnatural... or the big consoles (bass pedals) work the same?

[Guest]

Re: Leslie kit for My M111 and other questions: please respond ASAP!



Also the seller states, re the Leslie:"...Solid state relay for clickless speed switching..." Could you please explain the meaning of this?</p>

Thanks</p>

[Hammond101]

Re: Leslie kit for My M111 and other questions: please respond ASAP!



bubus,</P>


Bass is very non directional in the way we hear it. Playing bass notes through my RT3/147 wired 251, a "big" console, the chorale and tremelo effect are very reduced for the bass anyway. There are alot of other tones that go to the lower rotor however. It is actually theupper rotor that creates most of the Leslie effect. All of the popular and desirable Hammonds where single channel instruments with the exception of consoles that had reverb and built in sound systems like the A100 and M100 (baby A100). The second channel on all the two channel consoles was for reverb only. Hammond did not seperate bass and trebble output. This was alwaysdone, if done at all, by a crossover in the tone cabinet or Leslie cabinet. </P>


Your M111 will sound just fine through the 45/145 you propose to connect it to. Think Procol Harum's "Whiter Shade of Pale" That was recorded with an M100 series Hammond and a two rotor Leslie, 2nd harmonics on the percussion. Heavenly and very British sounding. I think you will loveyour rig. I am in the process of putting together another 251 Leslie (a tall 145 with a stationary channel for reverb) for the M101 I just picked up a week or so ago. It will sound fabulous. It will see home studio use. (the RT3, Leslie and tone cab won't fit in the studio room)</P>


The gear your plan to aquire is nice stuff, pretty much the best money could buy at the time it was built or even now for that matter. Once you get it home and hooked up, play it for a few weeks and then see what if any changes/mods/repairs need to be made to suite your playing style. Just becausesome of the jazz guys like a stoppedLeslie doesn't mean your licks won't sound great with the chorale effect.Experiment!</P>


Best,</P>


H101</P>

[Hammond101]

Re: Leslie kit for My M111 and other questions: please respond ASAP!

[quote user="bubus"]


"...Solid state relay for clickless speed switching..." Could you please explain the meaning of this?</P>


[/quote]</P>


Instead of the the electro-mechanical switch, they put a solid state relay in there that is noiseless. It has no moving parts.It is a nice improvement. you will not hear the relay "click" when changing speed at low volume.</P>

[Riverside]

Re: Leslie kit for My M111 and other questions: please respond ASAP!



"It is actually theupper rotor that creates most of the Leslie effect."</P>


I kindof disagree. When I bought my 147 (mouse cemetary), the lower speaker was popped, and I got very little sound at all fromit.</P>


No doubt, the upper horn is a great part of the whole deal, there's a reason why the "classic" leslies have both. </P>


I've heard tell that some playersdisconnect the motor on thebass speaker altogether, but I guess I just don't hearany reason for it. (But there's lots of things I don't hear. Getting old sux.)</P>
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[Guest]

Re: Leslie kit for My M111 and other questions: please respond ASAP!



Hey H101, great advice. Thank you very much.</p>

And as always, there's the last question, at least for tonight: you said "British sound"...will it ever sound (with the Spinet) near to the sound Gregg Rolie achieved in the first Santana album? (Lion's Face). Think Evil Ways, Soul Sacrifice, Jingo, You Just Don't Care...that brutal, in your face Hammond and Leslie sound...</p>


</p>

[Guest]

Re: Leslie kit for My M111 and other questions: please respond ASAP!

The lack of foldback on the M111 limits the fatness of the sound up high. Besides playing a B3, Gregg Rolie also used multiple leslies live creating even more spin to the sound. It is still possible to get quite a bit of grind to the sound if you turn up the gain and play in the low register. Think "Born to be Wild" which is one of the most overdriven organ sounds out there.

[Guest]

Re: Leslie kit for My M111 and other questions: please respond ASAP!



Well guys, finally went today to check the combo. Please click on the image.(slideshow)
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The organ, I didn't care very much because I wanted the Leslie. The organ was very noisy, hums, missing notes,etc.</p>

</p>

The Leslie, well, a couple of red flags, things I didn't see on other photos over the net.</p>

1) Cardboard cilinder covering the slow/fast motors for the horn. This cilinder is glued to the top shelf of the Leslie.</p>

2) The rotor slow/fast motors were kinda lose, VERY close to the tubes on the amp and just 1/2 inch from the rotor.</p>

3) The rotor has a black cloth, wrapped with copper wire.</p>

4) One of the tubes (in the back of the amp) was literally "shinny white" on the top.(you could see the filament)</p>

5) The ramp up speeds for horn and rotor were fast. When I disengaged the speed from fast to slow, the horn went to chorale fast but the rotor kept on spinning for about 15 seconds until it got to the chorale speed.(worn belt?)
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6) Both horn and rotor where spinning in the same direction. (counterclockwise I think)</p>

7) When I played bass pedals, I heard this "Tuck" on the 15" speaker. I checked the cone for cracks but didn't see any: the speaker couldn't handle the bass or was almost dead. (didn't happen when I played bass with the lower manual)</p>

FYI, the driver and 15" speaker are Jensen and the kit comes with 1 switch that reads: Main-off-echo. The cabinet is almost mint.
</p>

His last price is $1000.</p>

I would need advice from the experts to make a decision.
</p>

Thanks
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