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  • #1

    Please Help! Unit Not Starting! Desperate...



    Hi to all;</p>

    You've been of great help to me in recent weeks as I've been working to restore a dormant M-3, unused for 19 years. I've oiled it well, and waited a good 48 hours before doing anything. A bit ago, when I tried to start it up, here's what happened: First, the start motor... started, I guess. It's the one on the right side of the tone generator, if one is looking into the back of the organ. Something engaged and whirred for about 10 seconds, and then stopped dead before I had a chance to try and engage the run motor (again, this has to be the "run motor," yes? The one next to the vibrato scanner assy.?)</p>

    OK fine. So I did a bit of residual oiling of the gears and such around the start motor, waited a while, then tried to fire it up.</p>

    This time, the start motor does seem to start OK, though it starts to sound a bit "weak" after several seconds. When I try to engage the run motor, the whole thing stops dead. No movement on the run motor assy. at all, that I can see (it's a hell of a time, trying to see inside the back of the organ you're trying to turn on, you know?), and the start motor abruptly stops running. If I "let up" on the "Run" switch, then the start motor will start whirring again.</p>

    This is a consistent thing, and I don't know what to do. I've gone this far--refinishing, shining, polishing, applying much love and care. I don't want to see this thing die on me, now... Please let me know what I should try next.</p>

    Thanks in advance; anxiously awaiting your collective wisdom...</p>

    Regis</p>
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  • #2
    Re: Please Help! Unit Not Starting! Desperate...



    Sounds like a cacked-up run switch.</P>


    If you're handy with a multimeter, you can prove it to yourself.</P>


    I'd replace it. Be careful to unplug it first - mains current lives here!</P>
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    • #3
      Re: Please Help! Unit Not Starting! Desperate...



      [quote user="RegisWhite"] . . .applying much love and care. I don't want to see this thing die on me, now... Please let me know what I should try next.[/quote]</P>


      Regis,</P>


      What about mouth-to-mouth resuscitation? [:D]</P>
      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
      • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

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      • #4
        Re: Please Help! Unit Not Starting! Desperate...



        ...how do you think I got those electrical burns on my lips?</p>

        Seriously, though--regarding the previous comment about the run switch: which "terminals" of the switch do I need to check, and what should the reading be? In other words, how would I know if it were not working properly? In other words, am I just looking for 110v current, or a specific resistance?</p>

        One thing of note, however: when the run switch is turned on, as I'd tried earlier, I noticed that the amplifier did switch on, as evidenced by the fact that the power tubes started glowing. So what does anyone make of that, then..?
        </p>

        For the record, I don't know if the run switch is the culprit, based simply on my earlier experience that the start motor did start, then sort of weakened and stopped, initially. I had someone look in back to see what was going on; the start motor does engage, then, when the weakening starts, it will dis-engage and stop. As noted before, turning the run switch on does shut down everything else, so, yes, it may be that the switch is part of the problem, but I don't know if it explains everything.</p>

        Looking forward to more responses; thanks to everyone.</p>


        </p>

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        • #5
          Re: Please Help! Unit Not Starting! Desperate...



          I hate to ask a possibly insulting question, but are you aware that you have to continue tohold the start switch while you turn on the run switch untill they both come up to speed? I got my M-3 for $6 because the auctioneer let go of the start switch whenhe turned on run, and only heard the hum of the amp. Naughty me. I didn't share my secret and was the only bidder.[6]</P>


          Lee</P>

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          • #6
            Re: Please Help! Unit Not Starting! Desperate...



            If you have glowing tubes it seems the run switch is OK or at least half of it! 48 hours may not be enough time for the oil to wick down to the bushings in the generator. It may take 1-3 weeks to get there as it did for new group member RatMan.</P>


            Can you spin the Generator by hand turning the flywheel at the run motor end? Correct rotation is to turn the top of the flywheel toward the front of the console. Also, if you can spin it, try it with the the run switch in the on position. You should feel the motor going lump, lump, lump as you spin it by hand. This woud indicate the run motor works and you need to wait for the oil to get to all the bushings. BE CAREFUL, there are uninsulated AC main connections on the front left end of the TWG frame. They are exposed when you remove the Gen cover.</P>


            It is nornal for a generator to slow slightly when the run switch is turned on during start-up. There is a resistor brought into the start motor circuit to match speeds to the run motor.</P>


            To properly start the organ raise the start switch for about eight seconds. You should hear the generator spool up and then stabilize in speed. Keep the start switch engaged and raise the run switch holding the start switch for an additional four seconds. Release the start switch and it should run smoothly.</P>


            Best,</P>


            H101</P>

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            • #7
              Re: Please Help! Unit Not Starting! Desperate...

              I would just add that there is a contact in the run switch that shorts out the resistor H101 mentions when the run switch is off. Putting the run switch in the on position removes the short from the resistor, placingit in the start motor circuit. It is possible for this run switch contact to be bad, or the wiring to it broken, in which case the resistor is always in the circuit, the start motor will not come up to full speed, and therun motor will not take over.
              1937 Model E
              PR-40 w/Accutronic Reverberation
              Leslie 31-H
              Schulmerich ChimeATron

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              • #8
                Re: Please Help! Unit Not Starting! Desperate...



                Half of the run switch is normally on, the other half, normally off. It flips when the lever is thrown.</P>


                Find a schematic online somewhere (they're everywhere - tryCapt Foldback.)</P>


                My A100did the exact same a few months back - I bought a replacement run switch from that guy in Minnesota - and while it solved the problem, it didn't strike me as a quality piece for the $20 it cost. Again, it worked, and it IS new, and it was shipped fairly quickly.</P>


                You might try the 'bay.</P>
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