From Leslie heaven to Leslie hell: calling the experts...HELP.

[Guest]

Hi,

Well, the honeymoon is almost over...

Yesterday I turned on the organ and it played beautifully for 30 minutes or so when distortion started to come out from the Leslie.

All of a sudden the sound "changed". It wasn't only distortion (not Jon Lord's distortion but it is VERY pronounced even at very low volume). The additional thing that I noticed is the change of "tone", even on 888000000. (The Leslie amp always on 5)

It sounded to me like a note (any of them) associated with -how difficult is to explain this- a GJJJJJ, like when you expel air with your throat and your palate, bottom line the sound is not pure anymore.

I tried to troubleshoot so I move the switch to the Echo position (organ speakers only) and the sound came out pristine as always did before adding the Leslie. So, I say to myself: its something wrong with the Leslie.

I replaced the old Leslie 6550 tubes with the new KT-88s (JJ Electronics) and had the same problem, so put back the 6550's.

I turned down to the organ amp's gain knob and the same distorted/weird sound described previously.

So, without knowing anything about this, what could possibly be the problem?

1) Bad treble driver?
2) Something in the Leslie amp?

The bad sound I would say is audio, not mechanical.

I'm lost and I'm sick on spending money with this.

Your thoughts and help are very appreciated at this point.

Thank you.

[Guest]

Re: From Leslie heaven to Leslie hell: calling the experts...HELP.



It could be a number of things...</p>

If it's a treble driver you should hear the upper drawbars dissapear - possibly intermittently at first until it totally dies (treble drivers are certainly fixable - don't throw it out!)</p>

It could also be filter caps (this should be accompanied by a loud hum...) - failing filter caps can cause a rasping, nasty harmonic that plays along with you...</p>

It could also be a failing cathode resistor...
</p>

Loss of treble would point towards treble driver problems...increased hum/buzz would point toward filter caps, overall weird distortion could be cathode cap - did you try swapping the 12AU7(s) - assuming you have a 147 or 122 variant...a dying phase inverter tube can make some pretty nasty noises as well (although they usually last an extraordinarily long time)...</p>

All these things are checkable and fixable but you need to have the equipment and knowhow because it's really dangerous messing with tube amps while they're turned on - which you need to do to test these things!</p>

Good luck and post any more info...</p>

Jesse</p>

[Guest]

Re: From Leslie heaven to Leslie hell: calling the experts...HELP.

<div id="post_message_27780221">Just to clarify: this only happens when I play the organ.</div>

[fredy2]

Re: From Leslie heaven to Leslie hell: calling the experts...HELP.



Some of the Leslie's used a Mercotach rotary electrical connection to spinning treble horns... If yours does that might have something to do with it.</P>


Lots of things to test... since it only happens when audio is being sent, that points to some non-linearity in the amp or a bad speaker/driver.</P>


Disconnect the regular speakers and connect up a known good speaker right at the amp. If noise disappears, then you are on your way to isolating the cause. The old "divide and conquer routine".</P>

[andyg]

Re: From Leslie heaven to Leslie hell: calling the experts...HELP.



You should be able to connect the woofer straight to the amp, or just temporarily disconnect the treble driver. If the problem disappears you've found the culprit. If it's still there, the do as fredy says and try another good speaker of the same impedance.</P>


There are no Mercotacs in your leslie model. These were used on the Rotosonic leslies where the speaker was spinning in the drum.</P>


Let us know how things go.</P>


Andy</P>
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[Guest]

Re: From Leslie heaven to Leslie hell: calling the experts...HELP.

Update

I just disconnected the treble driver from the crossover (20 secs) and play the organ only through the 15" speaker an almost no distortion at high volume.

Then I did the opposite, disconnected the 15" speaker and played only through the treble driver an I heard distortion and scratchiness.

Could be that the horn driver died all of a sudden?

Thanks

[Tim Rinkerman]

Re: From Leslie heaven to Leslie hell: calling the experts...HELP.



How old is this leslie and how long have you been using it? If the horn driver was dead, it would not make any noise...it sounds like, to me, by the way you describe the sound, is that the crossover is allowing low frequency information toget to the horn driver, causing the diaphragm to hit the phasing plug inside the driver. The capacitor in the crossover may have dried out, causing it to lose its frequency filtering usefulness. Unscrew the crossover and get another capacitor of the same value. I doubt if it's more than $5.00, very simple to change. You really,really don't wantany low frequency going into the high frequency driver....it will not tolerate the hammering very long.</P>


Try connecting the 15" directly to the speaker output, bypassing the crossover. If anything sounds bad that way, itis an amplifier problem, but you will have taken the horn and crossover out of the equation.</P>


Hope this helps....Tim</P>

[Guest]

Re: From Leslie heaven to Leslie hell: calling the experts...HELP.



The Leslie I presume is from 1965 and I have used it only 1 week. (after buying it on eBay)</p>

It's in living room condition and it came from an estate sale.(house)</p>

How do I connect the speaker bypassing the crossover? To what part of the amp?</p>

If I replace capacitors, those must be soldered, right?</p>

</p>

Thanks</p>

[Tim Rinkerman]

Re: From Leslie heaven to Leslie hell: calling the experts...HELP.



The speaker output of the Leslie amp is the small two pin(one pin is bigger than the other,) socket on the lower face of the amp. It probably has a plug with a red and black wirecoming out of it, they go directly to the crossover. The easiest and most direct way to do this is to cut the wires going into the crossover, connect them temporarily to the terminals of the 15"..pull the plug for the 15" out of the crossover first...and see how it sounds. If you have mechanical trepidations about wiring and connections, You can repair all the single wires you cut with what are called "wirenuts",available at Home Depot,they are what they connected the motor leads onto the plugs that plug the high and low speed motors into the amp with, for a visual reference. They are inexpensive, easy to use and are as good as the original wire.They work for the motors, right?</P>


I'm trying to give you the most direct,inexpensive route to troubleshoot the problem yourself, if it is the crossover, you can repair it yourself cheaply...replace the capacitor, with wirenuts, if you like, and you will be done, rock on....if it does not fix it, you will have at least narrowed it down to something that your Hammond tech willNOT have to chase down. If it is something that went bad after only a week, he should be fairly reasonable about getting you back on track...I don't know of many Hammond techs that are out to make a fortune...most of them do it to keep the breed alive. ( At least that's what I HOPE to believe is true..)</P>


Don't lose hope....once it is right, it should remain rightfor a good long while, BUT, we have to remember, anything 40+ years old, is probably going to have somethingstop working as well as it did(organ or leslie)....components dry out, or change value due to the atmospheric conditions it was stored in. Once you start getting current going through old stuff again, you find the weak ones.</P>


I read your other posts, I got back into Hammonds with a similar set up as you have. I "adopted" an L-112 with a few broken keys that was removed from a church, leslie output, no leslie. I repaired the keys, watched E-bay for a couple years waiting for a leslie I could afford...found one...that was8years ago...now I have a living room condition 1963 C-3, a 45W/251/145 franken-leslie for it,( Itraded the L-112 to a local Hammond shop for 2 quiet motor stacks for the leslie,)and I recently acquired an X-77 to complete my Hammond "Bucket list". I played organ (well enough to fake it..)in the 70's playing Santana, Allman bros.,etc,..if you had a B-3 and a leslie in those days, you could be in any band you wanted! I truly dig the feel and sound of The Hammond/Leslie synergy. You can't explain it to somebody that doesn't get it. They seem to be the last,closest connection to tactile electronic music.</P>


Hope this helps...Tim</P>

[Guest]

Re: From Leslie heaven to Leslie hell: calling the experts...HELP.



Great answer Tim, I really appreciate it.</p>

I have a question, let's say it's the treble speaker: would you prefer it to get repaired ($80) or get a new Atlas PD-60A ?</p>

</p>

Thanks</p>

[Tim Rinkerman]

Re: From Leslie heaven to Leslie hell: calling the experts...HELP.



Well...........the Atlas is a really good substitute, however, it is not a plug and play replacement. The Leslie Jensen driver bolts to a tubular bearing that the horn spins on with 3 bolts, then the driver is screwed into the cabinet with three screws. The Atlas is a "screw on" style driver, it has a threaded "nose" on the throat that would normally screw into a horn. To use it, you have to purchase or make an adapter plate that provides the threaded hole for the driver to screw into, and also provides the three holes to bolt the bearing on to hold the horn. Finally, the adapter has the three holes in it that match the bolt pattern of the Jensen,tohold the entire assemblyin the cabinet in place of the Jensen. Price wise, the Atlas is a better deal, higher power handling, more durable, inexpensive...I havs seen the adapter plates on E-bay for around $35.00, I think the Atlas driver goes for about $60.00....its not a hard swap, but there is some wrenchin' to do to make it work. You won't have to do any soldering though, the Atlas has screw terminals....Tim</P>

[Guest]

Re: From Leslie heaven to Leslie hell: calling the experts...HELP.



Well Tim.</p>

I bypassed the crossover and connected the 15" speaker straight to the amp per your instructions and it sounds fine.</p>

[Tony Wheel]

Re: From Leslie heaven to Leslie hell: calling the experts...HELP.



Bubus</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>


Just remember, when you've tasted hell.... heaven is even that much sweeter.</P>


Good luck</P>

[Guest]

Re: From Leslie heaven to Leslie hell: calling the experts...HELP.



Well, new update.</p>

I disassembled the Jensen V21, took a look at the diaphragm ant it looks like new, no cracks, steady and uniform color, etc.</p>

The multi coil (very thin) around the diaphragm doesn't look bent at all.</p>

The funny thing,when I dismounted the plate to access the guts (where all the screws are) I found a dead fly: how the hell it got there?</p>

Anyway, the big question before I take the driver for repair: given the fact that it looks in pretty good shape (no cracks or aging "visible" on the cone), is it possible that is still "toasted"?</p>

Thank you very much.</p>

[Tim Rinkerman]

Re: From Leslie heaven to Leslie hell: calling the experts...HELP.



I doubt there is anything wrong with the V21. I would go after the crossover next. It's your next least expensive step. Tim</P>


You say the inside of the diaphragm looks fine...is the voice coil, uh, multi windings, still securely glued to the dome part? if it is, the driver is fine. If it was messed up enough to cause the noise you described, there would either be loose wires on the voice coil, or burn marks on it from rubbing the gap. If it making sound, it should be good to go. Crossover......</P>