Lifting the cabinet / lowering the basspedals of an L122, any tips?

[Stefank]

Hi,
I got myself an L122 for 250euro's few weeks ago and I'm in heaven. I wanted to have a real Hammond since I was 12yo, and now, at age of 58 I finally have one.

But anyway,... I start getting used to the pedals but I'm a quite tall guy, 1m90 (about 6ft). I find that my legs do not really fit under the lower keyboard for “convenient bass playing”. So,... I am thinking about lifting the cabinet about 2.5cm (1inch) and than lowering the pedals with that same distance. I have been searching the internet for few hours but surprisingly enough I did not find a single reference to even the problem of having long legs, let alone a fix for it.

I already found the service manual online. As far as I understand removing the pedals is about 2 screws in the back and 3 between the amplifier and the frontpanel so I would expect that not to be overly difficult.
Before I start.... Any advices? Tips? Anybody did something like this?
Can I lay the organ on it's back such that I can add height to the bottom? Or will I loose the oil that way?

any advice or idea is appreciated.

[handyczech]

Oil in Hammond organs is absorbed by wicks and pads pretty quickly. There is no reservoir as such waiting to spill over. If properly oiled and not drowning, there should be no need to worry. When selling these new back in the stone age, our crews would regularly most models "on end" to facilitate easier handling through halls and doorways.

At 6', maybe you are sitting too close or have the wrong bench. If the previous owner changed to a piano bench, which is quite a bit lower. In early spinets, Hammond built in a dual peg system which raised the bench lid a bit, resulting in taller players tilting back a bit to facilitate easier pedal clearance. Before major surgery, measure floor to bench top, sit back a bit, and maybe put a book about 1" thick on the bench and try that out. I am nearly 5' 11" and never experienced issues.

Larry K

[KC9UDX]

I'm 6'2" and have a lot of trouble with this. My biggest trouble is that I need to use effort to lift my feet off the pedals, and this usually means using my hands for counterbalance. I find spinet pedals easier to use because I can keep my feet on the floor when I'm not playing a pedal.

I think the source of my trouble lies in the fact that I'm a pianist before an organist. I probably have the bench way too close. But I haven't really had a chance to try different things.

[Stefank]

Thanks KC9UDX for at least “recognizing” the problem. Indeed like you I never played the pedals. Ehh... i had 1y pedal lessons on a church organ 40yrs ago. That did not work out. I played organ (Hammond xm1 module) and fender Rhodes for last 30 yr or so.

Thanks handyczech, I included a picture of my leg-position, open for comment.
I learned from others on this forum that the idea is to “hover” over the pedals and control with tiptoeing. As I'm new to this I may have this wrong (but I have a lot of fun). In fact it feels “ok” but only if I have my leg high enough, and that's when it gets pressed against the lower manual.

i donot have the original bench with the organ. I use an adjustable chair. I have tried many heights and this seems to work best, but... I would appreciate if I could move the upper leg a bit more left&right and with the compression I now have this is not possible.

so.... any ideas?

[KC9UDX]

I did play pedals a few times when I was short! :)

Take a look at this video: https://youtu.be/qkGyMas3XUI
Obviously I'm doing it wrong, but even with my stomp-stomp spinet pedal technique, my knee isn't under the organ. For reference, that's a drum throne. Edit: correction, I normally use a drum throne but that is clearly a barstool.

Incidentally, I did try what you're considering, that is, raising the organ and lowering the pedals. That did not help in my case. I don't remember exactly why not but it was one of those "the should have thought of that" moments.

[enor]

That chair is _way_ higher than a Hammond bench, but because it has a back rest and a narrow seat I can see why you'd need it that high. Notice the height of your knee as measured from the ground? That's the height your bench should be, and with a deeper seat. That way you can sit farther back and still "hover" at the correct height. This also means that the angle between your thigh and lower leg will be much closer to 90 degrees.

[Stefank]

Thanks Enor. I will start looking for some bench or different chair I have around and try.
I used to gig with a barstool (no bass-pedals). Fender tilted backwards. That way I did fit better in the lineup of guitar-players & singer.

Still,.. I might push the mod. Now I know that laying the organ on the back will not really hurt I would expect there is little danger in breaking something if I remove the pedals "just to have a look". Whatever I do, it will be a reversible mod.

Note: playing from a high chair will have the advantage of needing less support of the upper-leg so "less friction" in moving left & right. But no arguments... I will look for a bench and try before I continue.

[KC9UDX]

This video shows it better (again apparently using a barstool; I don't remember ever doing that).

(Again, not saying at all that this is correct posture, just demonstrating how my knee doesn't hit the organ because I'm so far away).

[handyczech]

It appears to me from your picture that the sole of your foot is nearly at 45 degrees to the pedal. I think you are too high causing you to press your foot down way too far. My position is with the foot parallel to and just above the natural pedals so that a small downward angle of the foot is all that is needed. Hover closer to the pedals and not so far above, in my small opinion.

I found a closed topic "Organ Bench Question" here on the forum. Standard spinet bench is 22" top to ground. I Think you are too high, but pull and read the post.

[Stefank]

Handyczech Thanks! I did find the post you mentioned. I will definitely test several setups. That will be the weekend. Weekdays are normally crammed with work.

[andyg]

Yes, you're definitely too high and possibly a bit too close. 22" to 23" is how high the bench needs to be so find something that's that height. A good quality adjustable keyboard bench will probably do the trick - finding a spinet bench should be easy enough in Holland, there were tens of thousands of organs sold there in the home organ's heyday. You might have to buy a junk organ with it, though! :)

[Stefank]

Ok,.. it appears,.... all of you are right 😂.
the organ came with a piano bench that was way too low. I took that bench again and tried several layers of extra height by stacking books in top of it.
Adding 10cm of extra height (4 inch) made it perfect.

by this... the project is not dead. Playing while sitting on a pile of 10cm (4 inch) of books is far from comfortable. The project is now just changed to:
—->>>. ”lifting the bench”😀.

Just adding some wood under the feet of the bench will make it horribly ugly so I'll have to see how to do that.
no worry, I will find out about that. (The organ is in the living room with a wife walking around it)
thanks for all advices.

(1 little disappointment, it would actually have been fun and rewarding to modify the organ)

[handyczech]

The photo makes the bench still look high. Try getting used to 22-23". Then observe the style of the base of the organ, how it has two little inverted ski-like features that stick out and taper down. Have someone fashion some out of wood, stained walnut, and screw them on the bottom of each side of the bench from the bottom upwards with long screws. Your wife will love it.

[enor]

Is that really a piano bench in the picture? Looks too high to be for piano. Measure it and report back.

[KC9UDX]

Also maybe take pictures with a yard stick.

[Stefank]

Enor, no clue whether this is "really" a piano bench. It was included with the organ. It has a seat that can open to store sheetmusic and I do not know of any other bench having that so it probably really is. Anyways, it has a height of 52cm: 20.5inch.
kc9udx (why the hack is your name so complicated): there it is, making a picture is a bit more complicated: holding the yardstick & taking picture at same time.

handyczech: Seatheight at the books is now at 65cm: 25.6inch. Yes I can fully understand you may still consider that high but it's at least a bit lower than the chair I used before.
I'm not sure this will be the final height, consider this "1st test height only". At least my upper leg is no longer squeezed into the lower manual and it is still high enough to "hover" my foot over the pedals.

What I definitely learned from the whole exercise is that "seat height is rather critical". I think I will endup going for a bench or stool with adjustable height such that I can calibrate to the most comfortable setting. I also came to the conclusion that I will likely NOT keep the bench but will go for a square seated stool. As you can see on the picture I have my Fender Rhodes at the right from the organ in square-corner position. Playing the Fender from the same bench will be tricky. A square seat will be easier. I was considering a round stool but that will not support the upper leg sufficiently so it will become square.

It also looks to me that the seat should be "relatively big". It seems it needs to support the upper leg significantly to allow the lower leg to "hang": any comments on that? What is actually the depth of a normal organ bench? Any tendency to make it a bit deep?

All together, I had never guessed that bench height would become so tricky. I have played Piano and (non pedal) organ on everything from normal bench, to barstool, to standing and never had issues. Fun new learning experience! And thanks for helping me on this.

As a sidenote (totally unrelated) the leslieswitch was inconveniently placed on the board left from the lower manual. I modified the chorus-switch.
I freed up the chorus-switch by soldering the wires towards "always on" (I like it that way anyways). I than rewired the chorus-switch to become the Leslie slow/fast switch.
It's now relatively easy to control the Leslie-speed with one finger while playing the upper manual.