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Accidentally left B3 on at night. Very hot smell next morning

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  • Accidentally left B3 on at night. Very hot smell next morning

    On two occasions, I Have forgotten to turn off the B3. Called away to the phone or something similar. When I went to the basement the next day, the room smelled like something was burning, such as in an electrical fire. IF I ever do this again (hope not), I'll unplug everything and feel both Leslie amps and motors, as well as the amp in the B3.

    Any ideas or experience with this out in the forum? Some old threads, but not comprehensive.

    Thanks.
    1955 B3, Leslie 21H and 147. Hammond A100 with weird Leslie 205. 1976 Rhodes. Wurlitzer 200A. Yamaha DX7/TX7. Korg M1. Yamaha C3 grand, 67 Tele blond neck, Les Paul Standard, PRS 24, Gibson classical electric, Breedlove acoustic electric, Strat, P Bass, Rogers drum kit, Roland TD 12 digital drums, Apollo quad, older blackfaced Fender Twin, other amps, mics and bits and pieces cluttering up the "studio."

  • #2
    Of course it's not wise to leave on such old electronics unattended for long periods of time. That said, the Hammond is very robust and I've not experienced any failures due to running it for long times. I've had churches leave it on for days between rehearsal and Sunday service.
    However, it's not good for the Leslie. Those motors run hotter and the amplifiers have very hot tubes. I have seen failures with Leslie amps from running overnight etc.

    The potential problem in the Hammond is a rectifier tube shorts out or a filter cap shorts out and burns up the power transformer because the Hammond doesn't have any fuses natively. You might consider adding the FPK-28 Trek II fuse kit to the B-3. The Leslie is fused already.

    Geo

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    • #3
      Just a suggestion, why not install a smoke alarm in that room above the organ so should something really go bad at least the smoke alarm should give you some kind of warning. I keep a suitable fire extinguisher in my home. My Leslie burnt up, was nice, I would have liked more flames and smoke though, it was because mains transformer insulation was failing.
      C3+122, Ensoniq EPS16+ (expert programmer!), SD-1. Previous: VOX Continental, Farfisa Compact Duo, L100, XB2, X5+760

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      • #4
        I've seen the power transformers on the organ's preamp burn up from being left on. This is one reason it can be a good idea to fuse the preamp.
        I'm David. 'Dave' is someone else's name.

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        • #5
          This is very helpful. I think I'll go for the fuse. But I have an infrared gun, and will leave the organ on for a few hours, checking the temp of the components over time. But not all night again!!! Smoke alarm is another great idea. Thanks! Dave
          1955 B3, Leslie 21H and 147. Hammond A100 with weird Leslie 205. 1976 Rhodes. Wurlitzer 200A. Yamaha DX7/TX7. Korg M1. Yamaha C3 grand, 67 Tele blond neck, Les Paul Standard, PRS 24, Gibson classical electric, Breedlove acoustic electric, Strat, P Bass, Rogers drum kit, Roland TD 12 digital drums, Apollo quad, older blackfaced Fender Twin, other amps, mics and bits and pieces cluttering up the "studio."

          Comment


          • #6
            To add a little more, I know of a C-2 that was left on for a week with no ill effects; however, it had a rebuilt preamp with a good 6X5 rectifier tube and new power supply capacitors. One thing I do to all organs is to check the 6X4 or 6X5 tube for heater-cathode leakage since this tends to be how they ultimately fail. If the heater-cathode leakage becomes a short, B+ current is shorted to ground, overheating and eventually destroying the preamp's power transformer.

            You can usually catch heater-cathode leakage long before it becomes a short -- if you have a tube tester that checks for this.

            If you have a Leslie connected to the organ, then the motors running continuously can get very hot.
            I'm David. 'Dave' is someone else's name.

            Comment


            • Dik van der Noot
              Dik van der Noot commented
              Editing a comment
              I want fuse protection in my C2 AO-10 and a rebuild without Weber coppercap...fast !

          • #7
            So with 2 Leslies on all night at slow speed, that may have been the more likely source of the heat and smell.
            1955 B3, Leslie 21H and 147. Hammond A100 with weird Leslie 205. 1976 Rhodes. Wurlitzer 200A. Yamaha DX7/TX7. Korg M1. Yamaha C3 grand, 67 Tele blond neck, Les Paul Standard, PRS 24, Gibson classical electric, Breedlove acoustic electric, Strat, P Bass, Rogers drum kit, Roland TD 12 digital drums, Apollo quad, older blackfaced Fender Twin, other amps, mics and bits and pieces cluttering up the "studio."

            Comment


            • David Anderson
              David Anderson commented
              Editing a comment
              At the risk of sounding impatient, you have access to your rig. I don't. I don't have a crystal ball with scratch-n-sniff capabilities If your preamp PT overheated, you'll be able to tell by taking the back off and investigating, including sniffing around. Look under the preamp to see if wax melted out or there are other signs of overheating. I saw one B-3 where it looked like the wax melted out and caught fire. The dead PT smelled so bad I had to put it outside after removing it.

          • #8
            Heat "smell" comes from contaminants, not the electronics themselves.
            If the organ is in a dusty, smoky, or greasy environment (as in any at all) these will condense on various parts of the organ and some of those parts will get hot. The "hot smell" is from those; usually the dust.

            Other contaminants can be from the electronics. The dielectric in leaking capacitors. The oil leaking from transformers. And because it's a machine, there is oil vapor exuded any time the motors are running. This vapor condenses and then attracts even more dust, etc.

            Throw in some heat and you got smell - even from the glass of a tube or the metal of the chassis.

            If the amps are properly biased and balanced and all the little discreet components are playing well together, there's no cause for heat concern even under continuous duty. When things are in good nick, you can leave it on and play it for *months* and it won't matter. When things are not in good nick, it's in a self-destruct mode, but that's been covered.

            The motors in a Leslie produce almost no heat because they have almost no power. And the comparatively wide open spaces of a Leslie doesn't retain much heat. Lube the motors and the bushings and bearings and it will run a long time with no residual overheating.

            Were i to offer advice, I'd unplug the thing, get out my windex and rags, and clean like my OCD depended upon it. Your 'hot' smell will be gone or at least substantially reduced.

            Comment


            • #9
              David, I need to stop with my idle comments and take the time to isolate the problem. Geezer, very helpful comments, too. I think the smell is that of really hot oil as opposed to that of rubber or plastic. I don't have a tube tester, but I know someone who does. Much appreciated.
              1955 B3, Leslie 21H and 147. Hammond A100 with weird Leslie 205. 1976 Rhodes. Wurlitzer 200A. Yamaha DX7/TX7. Korg M1. Yamaha C3 grand, 67 Tele blond neck, Les Paul Standard, PRS 24, Gibson classical electric, Breedlove acoustic electric, Strat, P Bass, Rogers drum kit, Roland TD 12 digital drums, Apollo quad, older blackfaced Fender Twin, other amps, mics and bits and pieces cluttering up the "studio."

              Comment


              • #10
                A little piece of mind, if nothing else?? Set it to count down, and even if you forget to shut the organ off, this would "remember".



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                • #11
                  Love it. As I descend into the neurofibrillary tangles of Alzheimer's, I could do something similar with electromechanical interfaces with stoves, sink taps, etc.
                  1955 B3, Leslie 21H and 147. Hammond A100 with weird Leslie 205. 1976 Rhodes. Wurlitzer 200A. Yamaha DX7/TX7. Korg M1. Yamaha C3 grand, 67 Tele blond neck, Les Paul Standard, PRS 24, Gibson classical electric, Breedlove acoustic electric, Strat, P Bass, Rogers drum kit, Roland TD 12 digital drums, Apollo quad, older blackfaced Fender Twin, other amps, mics and bits and pieces cluttering up the "studio."

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    You don't by any chance, have one of those screw in heater elements that used to be mounted inside Hammond organs that live in cold climates, do you?
                    1963 C-3 147 Leslie
                    1972 X-77GT 2 - 77P Leslie
                    Kurzweil K 2000

                    Comment


                    • David Anderson
                      David Anderson commented
                      Editing a comment
                      They were actually intended to be used as dehumidifiers, not organ warmers, though I suppose they could do both. I don't have one.

                  • #13
                    I used to inadvertently leave my iron on, so I plugged it into a power strip that I also plugged a light into. I power it on by turning on the power strip. That way if the light is on, I know the iron is on. It has worked for me.
                    Bill

                    My home organ: Content M5800 as a midi controller for Hauptwerk

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                    • #14
                      Originally posted by Tonewheel View Post
                      Love it. As I descend into the neurofibrillary tangles of Alzheimer's, I could do something similar with electromechanical interfaces with stoves, sink taps, etc.
                      Not just Alzheimer's at work...I worked in an Industrial plant and was kept pretty busy coming up with workarounds for operators who were constantly finding new ways to wreck our rolling mills! Interlocks to protect the operators from themselves ! If the procedure was "A-B-C-D", they'd find a way to go "A-D-C-X" !!

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                      • #15
                        At least your guys were right 50% of the steps. And no heater element.
                        1955 B3, Leslie 21H and 147. Hammond A100 with weird Leslie 205. 1976 Rhodes. Wurlitzer 200A. Yamaha DX7/TX7. Korg M1. Yamaha C3 grand, 67 Tele blond neck, Les Paul Standard, PRS 24, Gibson classical electric, Breedlove acoustic electric, Strat, P Bass, Rogers drum kit, Roland TD 12 digital drums, Apollo quad, older blackfaced Fender Twin, other amps, mics and bits and pieces cluttering up the "studio."

                        Comment

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