Strange Perc Soft behaviour - check before condemn

[Bodie]

I just want to check. I've now put firmware 1.625 into my SK2 in the hope it would fix some of the silly errors I found whilst testing it and find that by pressing Soft on Percussion lowers the organ volume. It didn't do that on 1.621 or my real C3. There is a parameter so when Percussion is engaged the organ level drops by -5dB, -3dB or 0dB which is correct, my C3 does the -3dB - but not when Soft is pressed. What is going on?

I'm finding all sorts of silly errors in the SK2, this is just one of many.

[Dik van der Noot]

They like to get on you nerves , so you will want to buy the perfect XK5.

[Bodie]

I'm finding errors in the SK2, it's just not acceptable. I will list the other stupid errors later once I re-run my tests with this 1.625 firmware. My concern is, as always, when a company introduces errors into revised firmware, that's a bad sign. Basically they fix one thing but introduce other errors. I suspect this may come from some suggestions by pro players but it's not mentioned in the update notes that came with the Revision 8.7 so I may be wrongly accusing Suzuki, hence I need to ask.

As anyone would, I'm not of the mind to spend a lot more money just to find out if Suzuki can get it right, it's better just to dump the brand and move on.

[Dik van der Noot]

Don't let the plastic bring you down !
Turn on the C3 , tune in , drop out.

[Bodie]

Yeh but I got the SK2 for gigging - I can't gig the C3! Mind you have a thought, a gigging keyboard really should have an IEC power socket not an external PSU with a DC input plug. Also the audio out jacks are not robust for gigs, the type fitted generally fracture leading to intermittant connection.

[Bodie]

I may have got that the wrong way round, pressing Soft makes the organ louder. I wonder if it overrides the other attenuation setting of when the Percussion is engaged, defeats that -3dB - more experiments needed.

Thankfully I've got the version 1.621 to fall back on if this 1.625 has introduced some errors. Does anyone know if there were any other releases between 1.621 and 1.625? I've seen the revision notes but can only find the two installs. 1.625 messes up the Control button, that now jumps to a different menu than as explained in the manual.

BTW: I've just completed making an expression pedal that matches the SK2 perfectly. I have a standard (low cost) swell/expression/volume pedal that I've selected components to make it work really well. I'll share the design details so everyone can make and shape a pedal to suit themselves.

[Bodie]

Tried again, Perc with SOFT off, the organ sounds lacking in bass. Press SOFT and bass is increased to normal. This is stupid. There is a parameter to lower the organ volume with Perc is engaged, 0, -3 and -5dB. This bass cut in not present on 0dB, noticable at -3dB and a problem at -5dB.

[enor]

That's how a real Hammond console works though... With perc "normal", the volume of the manual is reduced; but on "soft" it is not

[Sweet Pete]

And why I have bypassed R1 in the matching transformers.Does your Legend clone exhibit 'proper behavior'? This C2D does.
People slag them,try to find one though? Well built for road use.

[Bodie]

Thanks, I will compare with my real 1961 C3. I am aware pressing Perc does reduce the organ volume by -3 or -5dB, my C3 does -3dB. But my point is, Soft changes the tone, that it should not.
Perc Soft only affects the Percussion sound (the "pong"), not the organ volume or tone. I will have a read in the Viscount, Mojo and SK manuals for clues. All comments welcome (good or bad) I just want to root out what's going on.

[enor]

I'm confused, Bodie. In post #5 you just said that in position "soft", the organ tone is NOT affected. Now you say it is?

[Sweet Pete]

On perc soft the maximum drawbar volume is normal and perc attenuated.In perc 'normal' drawbars are attenuated more than 6db.
I would guess 10db at least on this A102.
On the volume tab beside the vibrato manual selectors I like the tone on soft.Normal is for solos.
One less pedal to operate,usually just tilt the tab.R1 is bypassed on this organ.
Perc normal is extra 'chirpy' with full power drawbars if so needed.
Not often though.I use a 65-70% Leslie vs 30-35% tone cab/verb mix and use stop frequently.
Chorale belongs on pads and swells in my world.Perc likes stop? Mine does.
The perc 2nd soft fast on this C2D is very accurate.Very convincing to an old player like me.
The volume drop on 'normal' certainly isn't the same as my modded A102, unfortunate reality.
Maybe Nord will enlarge the menu,and include a 'doghouse trim',who knows?

[Bodie]

Thanks for commenting, it got me rechecking what was going on. Here's what I found, which actually confirms what you guys were saying.

I thought I knew my 1961 C3 , it seems there's always something new or yet undiscovered.

C3:
Press Prec does reduce drawbar volume by -1.8dB (Soft - off) {attenuation figures are measured}
Now press Soft, drawbar volume goes back up.

That came as news to me, I can only guess -1.8dB isn't a noticable drop in the overall noise of things.

Viscount:
I looked in the manual and I discover a parameter, Percussion - Drawbar Attenuation -Yes/No!? It was set to No, so I set it to Yes and do the tests:
Press Perc, drawbar volume drops by -3.7dB I can clearly hear the difference.
Press Soft and boom, back up to full volume!

I revist the SK2:
Press Perc and drawbars drop by -5dB (very noticable)
Press Soft and the drawbar levels shoot back to full volume!

I think my confusion is, I didn't realise the C3 did any level changing, maybe the previous owner did a modification.
The Viscount has this parameter set to Off so I had no reference here.

When the SK2 is set to -5dB drawbar attenuation it is very noticeable. Possibly my confusion is, when volume drops so does tone quality and why I thought bass EQ was less. There is a parameter in the SK to change drawbar attenuation to -3dB and 0dB so that will fix that.

Another interesting point of confusion is, the person programming that Preset must have done so with an overall tone in mind. I notice the EQ section is wound right up. So key click sounds naff and there's ugly noises elsewhere.

Thanks for your input. I feel the mystery has been resolved, alas not my stoopidty! :)

[enor]

It's very likely someone has disabled the volume drop on your C3 - it is a very common modification. But from the factory it was there, and likely closer to -5dB than to -3.7dB.

[Bodie]

I will have a look into this. SweetPete says the attenuation ratio is set by R1 (T2 down to Gnd) one the schematic it is 3.9M (likely candidate for drifting).