How to oil X-66 and Elegante

[Guest]

This forum really is blessed with so many experts and service techs.... got a few questions I would like to ask: </p>

I'm looking at an X-66 that may need some work.  the 16' drawbar doesn't sound in the last octave and is fairly faint in the others..  It's the same on both upper and lower manuals.   We tried to oil the generator, but there was no hose with the instrument.... </p>

We oiled the animation box where the reservoirs were... but don't know where to oil the tone generator. Does the animation use the same hammond oil?  Where is the place to oil the generator?...front of the instrument or back... what would be a fair price to offer for this model?</p>

While on the subject of oiling, my elegante may need oil for it's leslie....what kind of oil should I use, and how accessible is the motor?  Is there a special way to oil it?</p>

Thanks guys... in advance...</p>

jerry </p>

[W4KSR]

Re: How to oil X-66 and Elegante



I don't own an Elegante, but have seen the back end of them. The Leslie setup is similar to my Concorde, as it uses a 6X9" Rotosonic. You'll need to pull the back off the organ. There are 4 screws that hold the assembly in the organ (2 each side). Remove those, and disconnect the audio/power plug. Pull the whole assembly out of the organ. You will need to remove the motor (most likely held in by wing nuts), to get to the oil holes. You'll need to get some Leslie oil. Don't use 3-in-1 oil, it's not the same. The last time I asked my local dealer for Leslie oil, he gave me Hammond Oil. It works fine. All you need is a drop, no more than 2. It goes a long way. Recommended you do this once a year, for normal use. After all is done reassemble. The belt should be taught, but not too tight.</P>


As for the X-66, Maybe AndyG can help. I do know there is a webpage, with message board for the X-66 at http://www.hammondx66.com/ingles/eframes.htm</P>


Also, try the HammondZone on Yahoo Groups.</P>


Mark</P>

[Guest]

Re: How to oil X-66 and Elegante



Thanks Mark... that was a very fast reply.   I love the Concorde... which one do you have?  Has it been easy to maintain?  I will look for the leslie oil when I attempt to clean out the Elegante. Just got it last weekend from a lady in Phoenix... drove 6 hours with a trailer to pick it up... only 600 bucks!  Well worth the drive... the condition of it was incredible... no one plays in the household.    Thanks for all the suggestions!</p>

Jerry </p>

[andyg]

Re: How to oil X-66 and Elegante



Hi Jerry</P>


There are a couple of X66 owners here and hopefully they'll chip in. I know the X66 quite well but am still a wannabe owner (no room), so I've never delved down into the base where the generator lives!</P>


There's always the Hammondzone Yahoo group, which also has a couple of active X66 owners - there were a couple on the other day - and, of course, www.hammondx66.com . Drop an email to Paco de la Rosa there. He or one of his many X66 owners will be sure to help and give you any advice you seek. I'm always amzed just how many X66s are down there in Mexico, often with several in the same house!</P>


Congrats on the Elegante as well. It's Hammond's finest LSI instrument by a long way. I got offered one for free a couple of years back but same old problem - no space. The dealer couldn't sell it because of its size and I think he dumped it in the end. [:S] One of the first times I played an X66, the owner also had a Concorde, both with leslies. I have to say that it was the X66 that got played the most, but all the extra goodies on the Elegante would have made a difference.</P>


You realise that you're now on a slippery slope, don't you? Next thing is the leslie setup for the Elegante [ that's 2 x 715's or a 715/515 combo ] and you'll need a leslie to go with the X66's Series 12 speaker, or maybe just a second Series 12. Then Paco will tempt you with the upgrades to the amplication and so on......</P>


You'll have a ball, put me down for a visit sometime!</P>


Andy</P>
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[Guest]

Re: How to oil X-66 and Elegante



Hello Andy,</p>

Thanks for the reply... The X-66 is one that I'm thinking of purchasing.  I don't really have the space... but I think I'll approach it like bringing home a stray puppy.. worry about it after I get it into the house!  The problem is I don't want one that needs too  much work. The store is asking 2500 USD for it.  Cosmetically, it's OK...not prestine.  Paco's website makes it seem like it isn't impossible to bring it back to it's splendor.... so I can deal with that...   but electronically, I'm a tad worried.  I'm  hoping that oiling the generator would solve the problem... if it does, I'll ( as Wilma Flintstone would say)  "CHARGE IT!"....About the leslie speakers... I think my quiet little neighborhood has gotten it's fair share from the internal speakers.  I have an electone Stagea hooked up to 2 KA-30's...  I might be wearing down my welcome! ...but now that you gave me the leslie model suggestion, you might have pushed me off that slippery slope!  Again thanks for the reply.</p>

[andyg]

Re: How to oil X-66 and Elegante



Reading back over your first post, I don't think that oiling the generator will do anything about the problem with the 16's.</P>


The X66 only has 12 tonewheels in its generator and they are not used to generate tones at all, but to act as 12 stable high frequency oscillators. Everything else in the X66 is entirely electronic, using dividers to produce all the pitches and notes produced by the organ. This organ therefore has electronic problems rather than mechanical ones. I'd be worried about paying that much for it, knowing that it might want some expensive work done on it. </P>


A good example with a Series 12 cab and a leslie 720 sold for around £1250 on Ebayover here a few weeks ago. If I'd had the room.... Anyway, that was a fully working example. US values probably aren't so different.</P>


Andy</P>
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[Guest]

Re: How to oil X-66 and Elegante



Thanks Andy... I needed to hear that....  It's so easy to get caught up with wanting one. Thanks so much for that bit of information... it's a reality check for me. You have been a saint... </p>

[g3]

Re: How to oil X-66 and Elegante



Hi Jerry,</p>

 I installed a Trek II generator and transposer board on my X-66. During the installation procedure, I discovered that the piece of wood that the swell pedal is attached to will unsnap from the organ and be raised on the two vertical chrome cylinders, thus allowing you to oil the generator without removing the power supply and generator. By putting your hand under the board on each side, press up and it will unsnap. Don't fill the cups with oil, just about 10 drops of oil in each cup is sufficient, about once a year. Don't forget the cups on the vibrato and celeste generator in the upper part of the organ (back). Also a couple drops in the two motor caps.</p>

 When I purchased my X-66 two years ago, I paid $2000, but it came with a 122 Leslie and a second swell pedal, one for the Leslie and one for the Hammond speaker. It had a burping D on every key, which turned out to be a frequency divider transistor. I was able to fix it myself. </p>

I love my X-66 and Paco has been a big help as well as Bill Brown, http://www.bborgan.com/bborgan_index.htm</p>

I agree with Andy that the price sounds a bit high, however if everything is working and it's what you want then $$$ are kind of insignificant compared to the enjoyment you have owning an X-66. </p>

 Best to you,</p>

George (G3)</p>

 </p>

[Guest]

Re: How to oil X-66 and Elegante



Hello George, </p>

I saw that ...  but there is a metal plate in the front that somehow clamps the piece of wood you are talking about down... do I have to unbolt it first?  (The black piece in front of the generator) I'm a bit wary of unscrewing the bolt...especially since I haven't paid for anything yet...   </p>

What kind of price do you think I should negotiate with this guy?....Under 2000?.... do you think that it sounds repairable?...  Is the soft buzzing that I hear coming from the tone cabinet also repairable?    The 16' drawbar seems to sound when I play it one octave below the lowest octave range. </p>

Again, thanks so much for your input.</p>

Jerry </p>

[g3]

Re: How to oil X-66 and Elegante



Hello Jerry,</p>

I'm not exactly sure which bolt you're speaking of, but I wouldn't remove it. If you take the cover off the bottom rear and are looking at the power supply, lay down on the floor with a flashlight and you'll see the little snap-keeper that's holding the board with the swell pedal on it. I took a long handled screw driver (common) and slipped it into that snap and the board popped up. Then do the same thing on the other side. Once you have them unsnapped, you can just lift it up, swell pedal and all. (Make sure the power is unplugged)</p>

Regarding the 16' drawbar problem, I sorta suspect a bad frequency divider, but it's really difficult to say. Andy would probably know much better than I. </p>

The soft buzzing could be most anything but probably an old capacitor in the power amp of the tone cabinet or the organ console preamps. The back, inside of the tone cabinet has cables running up to the amp which is bolted mid-way up the front of the cabinet. All the signals going into that amp have RCA connector plugs. With power off, you could clean all of those cables and connectors, which might help. It certainly did on mine. After I disconnected those cables, I connected my iPod to each amplifier individually to make sure all the amps were working, powering up the organ each time I moved a connection. I had peace-of-mind knowing those amps were OK. I have to admit that my tone cabinet always has a little hum and buzz, but I have to get quite close to it to hear it. I think some of that is just the 1960s design. Again, Andy could help here. I never hear the noise when I play, so I just discount it.</p>

Maybe offer $1200, if the seller starts to look comotose, up it to $1500 and go from there. You don't know till you try. The worst thing that can happen is he'll say "No." </p>

Good luck and let us all know how you're doing,</p>

George (G3) </p>

 </p>

[andyg]

Re: How to oil X-66 and Elegante



Well, I can count the number of X66's I've played on the fingers of one hand, and heard just afew more. There's been a slight (and sometimes more than slight)hum on all the Series 12 cabs, but I couldn't tell you if that came from the organ or speaker. Yes, I guess it's just 60's lo-fi! Once you get playing, you don't really notice it much, but you will when you come to record it, as I know to my cost. I've also heard a couple of commercial LP's with evidence of a good deal of hum. "Hammond Continental" with Jan de Nef springs to mind, and you can really hear it in the quiet passages. Brilliant LP, though!</P>


Now for those 16 foots. If it were a divider problem, I'd expect missing or weak notes to show up if played an octave lower when using the 8' drawbar. If it's the 16' that's weak over the entire keyboard, I'd suspect something else, but I'm not the expert on the insides of the X66.</P>


Andy</P>

[Guest]

Re: How to oil X-66 and Elegante



Hi Andy,</p>

I'll have to check that out... Will have another hack at it this Thursday when I head down to that city.  The 16' had absolutely no sound in the first octave.... then came in faintly in the following octave.  I think the 4' came out the loudest in the lowest octave of the instrument.  Will keep all these posts in mind when I go to try it again.  In the mean time, another X-66 has emerged.  He is saying that it was a recording studio's and he was keeping it in a storage warehouse with his other recording consoles.. he wants 2500 USD for it... says it's in perfect condition.  I've made an appointment to see it next week.  I hope this isn't turning to an infatuation with just getting one. Thanks again Andy!</p>

[Guest]

Re: How to oil X-66 and Elegante



Hello George,</p>

 When I was trying to oil the generator, I did manage to prop out the sides, but the center wasn't letting go... (I didn't want to use excessive force... especially since it wasn't mine....yet)  If it is a bad frequency divider, are we talking major bucks to repair?...is there one board that I can pluck out, bring with the service manual and tell a tech to fix it?</p>

The store is telling me that it is consigned.. although I think they are just giving me that story to make up a bad guy to keep the price up.  Given the fact that it isn't working, and that I have found another X-66... (see the post reply to Andy) maybe they'll be singing a different tune.  Comatose?...no not these guys, they are pros... they could sell their moms with a straight face!</p>

Will keep you posted on what happens... still can't find the appropriate space... but I'm sure we can move the sofa elsewhere! </p>

[W4KSR]

Re: How to oil X-66 and Elegante

[quote user="Jerrygong"]


Thanks Mark... that was a very fast reply. I love the Concorde... which one do you have? Has it been easy to maintain? I will look for the leslie oil when I attempt to clean out the Elegante. Just got it last weekend from a lady in Phoenix... drove 6 hours with a trailer to pick it up... only 600 bucks! Well worth the drive... the condition of it was incredible... no one plays in the household. Thanks for all the suggestions!</P>


Jerry</P>


[/quote]</P>


Nice deal! I wouldn't pay more that $1000 for one. I know where there's one in driving distance to me for $500, but no room for it. I have a 2182 Concorde from 1975. I'm the second owner. It had a few minor issues when I got it, mostly trouble free. I get some static storms in the season changes (Spring to summer, summer to fall), but is fairly quiet. I had a 2107 that died on me before this one. It had been trough multiple owners, and it was always a bear for me to keep going. It actually caught fire on me once!</P>


Mark</P>

[Guest]

Re: How to oil X-66 and Elegante



The sweetest thing of the deal is that it was just dirty... everything else was pristine... everything works except the rhythm ft reset.. which I'm pretty sure I can fix when I open it up to oil the leslie motor.  After I cleaned it, and orange oiled the cabinet, it looks showroom new....</p>

I have a passion for the Concorde brought about by an album that I had as kid of Rosemary Bailey.   How I wished I had saved my LP.  Funny thing is, I got the album in Okinawa, Japan about 30 somewhat years ago...(I was very young!)  To this day I remember the arrangements...  I've seen Rosemary since then... now that she works for Roland... but I wish I could hear her arrange songs more a la Hammond.  The album cover (the one released in Japan) had her sitting on a Concorde in the comtemporary finish. (black top...chrome pedals).. I've been wanting one since.</p>

Can't you fix your weather problems with deoxit?  I plan to open up my Elegante and give it a thorough cleaning inside... deoxitting all the contacts.</p>

Jerry </p>