Ebay Classic organs

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

are vibrato and Leslie (internal or external) meant to be used simultaneously ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • are vibrato and Leslie (internal or external) meant to be used simultaneously ?

    I have no training on an organ, and the vibrato scanner on my T 524 does not work. Since I have the internal 'Leslie' I am wondering if I would gain enough by having vibrato to make it worth pursuing a fix for my scanner ? What does it ad when the sound is already modulated by the Leslie ? A link to a with/without sound clip would be very welcome !

  • #2
    All down to personal taste. I would never use vibrato and fast leslie together unless I was specifically trying to get a theatre organ type sound, and that would never be on a Hammond, but on something like a Conn organ. The vibrato speed and fast leslie speed are different so the two effects will fight to a certain extent.

    Heavy vibrato with slow leslie sounds like a wailing cat to me! Chorus vibrato and slow leslie is an accepted sound for the jazz players but I still don't like it.

    I'd still pursue the repairs to the scanner - though if it's just the rattly noise that worries you, there may be no fix. Some were just built noisy, like the one in my second T500. Stripped down and rebuilt professionally - still noisy. That said, I can count the number of times that I've used vibrato and leslie together on a Hammond in the last 20 years on the fingers of two hands, possibly one hand!

    It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

    New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

    Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
    Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
    Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
    Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

    Comment


    • Two Finger Tony
      Two Finger Tony commented
      Editing a comment
      That settles it then, I like the effect of the pseudo Leslie in my T and use it most of the time so if one doesnt use the vibrato in conjunction with the Leslie then there is no reason to search for a quiet scanner. Thanks for replying.

  • #3
    Andy you will remember the R-100, which was basically a console T, had no vibrato at all-just the Rotosonic.
    Larry K

    Hammond BV+22H+DR-20, Celviano for piano practice
    Retired: Hammond L-102, M-3, S-6, H-112, B-2+21H+PR-40, B-3+21H, Hammond Aurora Custom, Colonnade.

    Comment


    • andyg
      andyg commented
      Editing a comment
      Indeed, spent many hours at the console of various R100s, in the shop, at gigs or in concert. Never missed the vibrato. Just not my 'thing' when playing Hammond.

  • #4
    I bypassed the rattling scanner on my T, in its place I installed an effects loop which connects to an outboard guitar multi-effects unit which I use to closely mimic the "C3" chorus setting which the consoles are famous for. Also adds a little bit of treble boost which is part of the "C3" sound.

    It's worth noting that a lot of great players use the scanner chorus as a kind of fake Leslie when they play through stationary speakers. Jon Lord circa 1969-1973 comes to mind, when he was playing through Marshall stacks to compete with Ritchie Blackmore's guitar.
    Current:
    1971 T-202 with Carsten Meyer mods: Remove key click filters, single-trigger percussion, UM 16' drawbar volume correction. Lower Manual bass foldback.
    Korg CX3 (original 1980's analogue model).
    1967 Leslie 122 with custom inbuilt preamp on back panel for 1/4" line-level inputs, bass & treble controls. Horn diffusers intact.
    2009 Marshall 2061x HW Plexi head into Marshall 4x12 cabinet.

    Former:
    1964 C3
    196x M-102
    197x X5
    197x Leslie 825

    Comment


    • #5
      It's taste, as Andy says. But it's rare you'll hear vib and tremolo simultaneously. And chorus and chorale together isn't a great sound (IMO), but a lot of people seem to like it. Chorale (again, IMO) is a bit overrated, but it can sound good in certain musical conditions, for example chordal clusters in dramatic/film music with good room reflection. Someone who did mix console vibrato (V1/V2) and Leslie tremolo was Milt Buckner - and it sounds good. But then again he had a very specific, locked-hands, pre-Jimmy Smith thing going on. Wild Bill Davis's early stuff also had this vibe. You don't hear those sounds so much these days.

      Comment


      • #6
        I just love the slightly insane larger-than-life underwater-ish quality of 888888888 withC3 chorus and Leslie on Tremolo combined. Excellent for those biiiig ending chords.
        Current organs: AV, BC, A-100
        Current Leslies: 22H, 142, 147, 760
        Organs in the past: L-100 (several), M-100 (x2), T-100, E-100, CV
        Other keyboards: Roland FP-4, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha TX81Z, Yamaha Motif ES Rack, Korg Krome, Novation Mininova

        Comment


        • #7
          I think that Enor makes the point. When I listen to someone like Tony Monaco, C3 is on for both manuals, even when playing left handed bass and comping with the right hand. But then there will be the flip on, the smear, and then all 8's with staccato stabs.

          And this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9AkXZ0qvII shows Joey D starting with no C3, then at 1 minute, he has C3 on. At 5:22, out come all the stops: slightly insane...then back to cool C3. Something like 888 on top, 848 on bottom. Could be wrong. Tasteful intermittent fast Leslie. Finally, he goes nuts at 8:00 to the end, including messing with the run motor switch to bend the pitch. At the very end, everybody looks really happy around the room, hopefully including the lonely percussionists. But the control room guys have coded with bleeding, perforated eardrums, speaker cone fragments spewed all over the sliders, smoke and flames rolling out of the vents, and all the analog VU meter needles are bent. So probably best to limit the psycho moments somewhat.
          1955 B3, Leslie 21H and 147. Hammond A100 with weird Leslie 205. 1976 Rhodes. Wurlitzer 200A. Yamaha DX7/TX7. Korg M1. Yamaha C3 grand, 67 Tele blond neck, Les Paul Standard, PRS 24, Gibson classical electric, Breedlove acoustic electric, Strat, P Bass, Rogers drum kit, Roland TD 12 digital drums, Apollo quad, older blackfaced Fender Twin, other amps, mics and bits and pieces cluttering up the "studio."

          Comment


          • Tonewheel
            Tonewheel commented
            Editing a comment
            I do really enjoy that dynamic when it's done so well!

        • #8
          I think Rollie used vibrato/cho in the early iconic Hammond songs of Santana.

          Jingo was one of my faves that Gregg inspired the planet with melding latin rock with organ.

          This sounds to me like C1 rotors off and then ramp.🤩




          Depends on your bar reg settings to use cho/vib so as not to get too much "bleating."

          Comment


          • #9
            Listen to the organ on the first 20 seconds of this song. It is C3 vibrato/chorus with the leslie on slow. You can clearly hear the movement in the tone. For some people (like myself) that is an essential feature and in my view one of the biggest issues with "clones" in not getting the C/V "right" (along with terrible leslie sims).

            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ESDqkzZOQCo
            57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox 88 and 76 key versions; Gemini desktop module; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; 67 Howard Combo Organ; www.dyinbreedband.com

            Comment


            • Tonewheel
              Tonewheel commented
              Editing a comment
              That shimmer is captivating. But dead without the slow Leslie. Can a Neo come close, though?

          • #10
            This sounds like C1 to me:



            E Pluribus Wiggum

            Comment


            • #11
              Yikes. Mark Farner playing a Hammond like he plays guitar....anybody know what he was using to get that sound?
              1955 B3, Leslie 21H and 147. Hammond A100 with weird Leslie 205. 1976 Rhodes. Wurlitzer 200A. Yamaha DX7/TX7. Korg M1. Yamaha C3 grand, 67 Tele blond neck, Les Paul Standard, PRS 24, Gibson classical electric, Breedlove acoustic electric, Strat, P Bass, Rogers drum kit, Roland TD 12 digital drums, Apollo quad, older blackfaced Fender Twin, other amps, mics and bits and pieces cluttering up the "studio."

              Comment


              • #12
                Originally posted by Tonewheel View Post
                Yikes. Mark Farner playing a Hammond like he plays guitar....anybody know what he was using to get that sound?
                It was a brand new B3 he had just bought and a Leslie.

                Comment


                • Tonewheel
                  Tonewheel commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Looks like he lost his shirt on the purchase. How long did his V-21's last?

              • #13
                Tonewheel commented
                Today, 10:14 AM



                Looks like he lost his shirt on the purchase. How long did his V-21's last?
                Hahaha...

                I used to floor the V21 on my 122 and it never blew.

                I broke a key though.

                Comment


                • #14
                  So, Tony, so far you have seen only a small sampling of opinions about chorus/vibrato and Leslie's. Truly a matter of preference and taste.
                  1955 B3, Leslie 21H and 147. Hammond A100 with weird Leslie 205. 1976 Rhodes. Wurlitzer 200A. Yamaha DX7/TX7. Korg M1. Yamaha C3 grand, 67 Tele blond neck, Les Paul Standard, PRS 24, Gibson classical electric, Breedlove acoustic electric, Strat, P Bass, Rogers drum kit, Roland TD 12 digital drums, Apollo quad, older blackfaced Fender Twin, other amps, mics and bits and pieces cluttering up the "studio."

                  Comment


                  • #15
                    I would suggest it depends on the rig you’re playing. It certainly sounds great on a console but not so much on a spinet with an internal Leslie. I use C3 with a Leslie on my BCV/147 for Santana and Winwood covers as they did themselves but would not use vib chorus with the internal Leslie on my T202.
                    Hammonds; BCV, M101, M102 White UK Factory Split, T202, R100, L162 chop
                    Lowreys; Heritage DSA, Berkshire Deluxe TBO-1
                    Farfisas; Compact Duo MK2, Professional 110R, Compact Deluxe, VIP233
                    Analog Korg CX3
                    Leslies; 147, 145, HL822 ​

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X