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  • Hammond L-102

    Well, I'm the proud new, if temporary, I hope, owner of 1962 *L* 102 serial no. 15757, and I'm the second owner of it, in a way, because it hasn't been played since grandmother died in 2005. I turned the generator by hand and spun it to start. Everything seems to be working. (Drawbars need cleaning.) Oiled the gen and put a few drops in the motor ports. Motor is noisy.

    I've ordered a new power cord and run cap from TWG. They did not have an "experienced" motor, however. My question is if the two sided green motor in a T-500, which is also auto-start, can be used in place of a one-sided green motor.

    I say temporary owner because I located this organ and hope to fix it up cosmetically and mechanically in order to donate it to a church's old "one-room-school house beside the cemetery." I hope it's going to be much more reliable than the Genie 50 they've been using. This organ is just for the kids' music, so they don't need anything fancier. Anyway, that's the plan.
    Last edited by Silken Path; 01-09-2021, 03:56 PM.
    -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
    -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112 - M-102 coming soon
    -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

  • #2
    If it has the self starting motor, it's not an M-102. Post a pic so we can see what exactly you have brought home!
    Current organs: AV, BC, A-100
    Current Leslies: 22H, 142, 147, 760
    Organs in the past: L-100 (several), M-100 (x2), T-100, E-100, CV
    Other keyboards: Roland FP-4, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha TX81Z, Yamaha Motif ES Rack, Korg Krome, Novation Mininova

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks, Enor - it's an L-102... Looks similar to my E-112 in there. Motor date is 1962. Tubes are mostly original Hammond. It's in 6/10 or 7/10 condition now, but intact.

      Click image for larger version

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      -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
      -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112 - M-102 coming soon
      -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

      Comment


      • Silken Path
        Silken Path commented
        Editing a comment
        I'm revising the condition to 6.5/10. It has a lot of veneer problems, but everything works. It was advertised as an M-102, and I found the M-100 in the M series manual. I did wonder about the start switch.... Anyway, have the motor and capacitor out of the T-582 now and plan to stick them in this evening.

        The organ has tabs for the percussion (with a separate amp), and I and II reverb (also with a separate amp). One of them also serves as the organ preamp. Versions of the L-100 could be had with preset percussion (cymbals, brush, etc.) and rhythm.

        It has one key that needs replacing on the lower manual. Hopefully they will also interchange with the 582. It's not funny what one needs to do to replace a lower key on the L-102. Both upper amps need to be removed, the top manual needs to be raised, and some bolts from the bottom removed to elevate the manual enough to reach in there with a wobble socket... We shall see.

        Anyway, so far, so good.

      • enor
        enor commented
        Editing a comment
        You do not have to go thru all that to replace a lower manual key. No amps need to come out, and the bottom manual does not need elevated. Just remove the organ top and tilt back the top manual, and you have full access to the mounting screws (on the leaf springs). Just loosen a couple of turns and unhook the key, Any neighboring black keys need to be taken out before a white key comes out. It's a 15 minute job.

    • #4
      Then yes, any self starting motor works fine in it.
      Current organs: AV, BC, A-100
      Current Leslies: 22H, 142, 147, 760
      Organs in the past: L-100 (several), M-100 (x2), T-100, E-100, CV
      Other keyboards: Roland FP-4, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha TX81Z, Yamaha Motif ES Rack, Korg Krome, Novation Mininova

      Comment


      • Silken Path
        Silken Path commented
        Editing a comment
        Thank you, Enor.

    • #5
      Well, the motor from the T-582 has four wires - two black, one tan, one red. The motor removed from the L-102 has three wires - black, grey, and red.

      I'd like to use the four-wire motor in the L-102.

      So what does one do with the extra black wire? With only one black wire attached, the organ is not self-starting. Tapping that terminal (on the cap) with the other wire also does not initiate starting. (The T-582 was starting fine when I moved it under the shelter... some months ago.)

      I do have a new capacitor coming from TWG this week, but I'd like to get this wiring question sorted out.

      Thanks.





      -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
      -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112 - M-102 coming soon
      -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

      Comment


      • Silken Path
        Silken Path commented
        Editing a comment
        HeyJoe's third picture in his thread looks just like the motor I took out.

        https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...-run-capacitor

        I still have the option of trying the original motor with the new cap when it comes. That's a 1962 motor and the T-582 would be about 1975.

        I'm also thinking I'd like to make a bench-testing jig for Hammond starter motors. It's concerning that TWG doesn't have a replacement for this motor.

    • #6
      The run capacitor from the T-582 with the original motor starts the organ. I went back and looked at my prior purchases, and I'm not sure that the last cap I ordered went into the E-112 or the T-582. Anyway, I will put the known new capacitor in the L-102. (I think I ordered caps for both the E-112 *and* the T-582, but I'm not sure enough of that to give it away to an innocent party that might use it for the next 20 years.)

      Coast down on the gen is almost nothing. I can turn it by hand very easily, but it's only been a short time since oiling and it sat, maybe, for 15 years. It sounds very good when running - very stable note pitch and no wavering. Percussion and vibrato works. All the pedals work.

      So the next few projects are getting the drawbars working better and fixing some noise in the pedal. Diagram there shows a pot. I'll try to D5 that tomorrow. Too bad it doesn't have an open-air cap. That has been zero problems (other than blowing dust out once or twice) on my M3.

      The soft-normal tab is not doing anything, but that's low priority.

      I'm really liking this organ so far.
      -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
      -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112 - M-102 coming soon
      -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

      Comment


      • #7
        https://www.bborgan.com/products/sel...r-l-100-series

        Comment


        • Silken Path
          Silken Path commented
          Editing a comment
          Thank you, Bruno. I have it running on the original motor now, which has quietened down considerably since oiling it twice. I wonder why their motor doesn't come with a new capacitor. I think the motor I bought for the E-100 was $69 with the cap from TWG. (That was organ #3 - my first with a full pedal set.)

        • Bruno Primas
          Bruno Primas commented
          Editing a comment
          I agree. For $90, I would think a new capacitor would be part of it. They're not that expensive.

      • #8
        Originally posted by Silken Path View Post
        Well, the motor from the T-582 has four wires - two black, one tan, one red. The motor removed from the L-102 has three wires - black, grey, and red.

        I'd like to use the four-wire motor in the L-102.

        So what does one do with the extra black wire? With only one black wire attached, the organ is not self-starting. Tapping that terminal (on the cap) with the other wire also does not initiate starting. (The T-582 was starting fine when I moved it under the shelter... some months ago.)

        I do have a new capacitor coming from TWG this week, but I'd like to get this wiring question sorted out.

        Thanks.




        How was it wired in the organ it came out of?
        Current organs: AV, BC, A-100
        Current Leslies: 22H, 142, 147, 760
        Organs in the past: L-100 (several), M-100 (x2), T-100, E-100, CV
        Other keyboards: Roland FP-4, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha TX81Z, Yamaha Motif ES Rack, Korg Krome, Novation Mininova

        Comment


        • Silken Path
          Silken Path commented
          Editing a comment
          I'll have to test fit it back to see. (It's a minor pain with the drum vibrato in the way.) The original motor seems to be doing well now.

      • #9
        Maybe ask Admin to change the title of your thread to L-102, Leaving it as M-102 gives false search results (that's why I'm here).
        -------

        Hammond M-102 #21000.
        Leslie 147 #F7453 in the queue.
        Hammond S-6 #72421

        Comment


        • peterb_2795
          peterb_2795 commented
          Editing a comment
          Same ... lol

        • Silken Path
          Silken Path commented
          Editing a comment
          Asking is done - thank you.

        • Silken Path
          Silken Path commented
          Editing a comment
          Admin has fixed it. Thank you, sir.

      • #10
        Spraying the pot in the expression pedal with CRC QD twice with a minute in between cured the pedal static. I found that only the four smaller screws need to be removed. The four big ones actually hold the entire pedal assembly, tray included, to the organ floor.

        I also pulled out all the tubes, cleaned the pins and the glass envelopes with CRC and pipe-stem-cleaned the sockets. Used household alcohol to de-dust the metal parts and vacuumed out some insects (but no rat evidence). Hammonds always sound like crap after doing this, but it always clears up in a few minutes. I found two of the RCA plugs were reversed compared to the color labels on the circuit box. Changed them - no discernible effect so far. (Blue and brown, and the percussion amp, if anyone is an expert on Hammond RCA-plug color codes.)

        Then I got enthused and tried a rousing rendition of "His Way with Thee."

        Next the broken key (I hope it's interchangeable with the T-582) and cleaning it up some more. I plan to clean all the wood with Ronsonol, detail it with a touch-up pen, and then use the traditional Johnson paste wax in several days. That worked great on my '67 Allen. (Thank you, toodles for the tip.)
        -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
        -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112 - M-102 coming soon
        -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

        Comment


        • #11
          The capacitor from the T-582 is getting too hot to touch after running the L-102 for a couple of hours. I still have the new one coming and will try it, but I am again suspecting the 1962 motor. We shall see. I might end up ordering that $90 motor (if I can't find a cheap one on eBay.)

          -- Found a $25 and a $37 motor both claiming to be from L series. Ordered them both....
          -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
          -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112 - M-102 coming soon
          -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

          Comment


          • #12
            If the motor is running hot, the most likely cause is a sluggish generator in need of oil.
            Current organs: AV, BC, A-100
            Current Leslies: 22H, 142, 147, 760
            Organs in the past: L-100 (several), M-100 (x2), T-100, E-100, CV
            Other keyboards: Roland FP-4, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha TX81Z, Yamaha Motif ES Rack, Korg Krome, Novation Mininova

            Comment


            • Silken Path
              Silken Path commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks. I'm going to let it sit until I get both the new motor and a new capacitor. I have oiled the generator twice so far and it spins easily by hand - not stiff at all. The *cap* is what was hot, not the motor. The motor has a noise that I don't like and a lot of wobble in the drive shaft. It quietened down after I oiled it and is getting squeaky again... Another symptom is loss or irregularity of speed varying the tones. I'm going to let it sit at least a week.

          • #13
            That cap is definitely bad, maybe about to rupture. A motor ‘run’ capacitor should never get hot, no matter what might be wrong with the motor itself.
            Tom in Tulsa

            Fooling with: 1969 E100, 1955 M3, 1963 M100, Leslie 720

            Comment


            • Silken Path
              Silken Path commented
              Editing a comment
              Thank you, Tom. I was wondering about that. I won't run it again until I get the new cap installed. Fortunately I have other fish to fry. (Or unfortunately, depending how one looks at it.) The original cap wouldn't even start this motor. I must not have replaced it in the T-582.

          • #14
            Originally posted by enor View Post
            If the motor is running hot, the most likely cause is a sluggish generator in need of oil.
            Well, my M3 takes 17 seconds to coast down - I've oiled it around Christmas for the last six years, and that's all it's needed so far. The L-102 takes about three seconds! I've oiled it 15 ml per funnel three times now. What's the forum's recommendation now? I think I can access the bottom of the generator by covering up the stuff below and removing the matting. Would spraying with WD-40 be a good idea? I also have some naptha (Ronson) here. I haven't been religiously watching the Hammond subforum since getting the Allen. (Shame on me.)
            -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
            -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112 - M-102 coming soon
            -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

            Comment


            • #15
              On the L-100s, there's a better way than flushing. I stand the L-100s up on end, remove the insulation under the generator, and oil each bearing directly with regular tone generator oil. Although, this should have been done before adding all that oil to the funnels... since it obviously hasn't infiltrated the wicks yet, it's going to run over and cause a mess when you stand the organ up. So - I'd say the best thing for you to do is to simply wait. The L-100 will never take as long to spool down as the M-3 because the motor has more inertia and less flywheel action; but 3 seconds is a sign that it's still really sluggish. You should get at least 10-15 seconds.
              Current organs: AV, BC, A-100
              Current Leslies: 22H, 142, 147, 760
              Organs in the past: L-100 (several), M-100 (x2), T-100, E-100, CV
              Other keyboards: Roland FP-4, Yamaha DX7, Yamaha TX81Z, Yamaha Motif ES Rack, Korg Krome, Novation Mininova

              Comment


              • Silken Path
                Silken Path commented
                Editing a comment
                Thank you, Enor. I'll be patient.

              • Silken Path
                Silken Path commented
                Editing a comment
                Well, this reminds me of a cartoon I saw once. Two buzzards (vultures) were sitting in a tree, and one was saying to the other, "Patience, hell, let's go KILL something."

                Stood it on end and lubed all the bearings... Got a lot of oil out, but it stayed in the end of the generator, and I just wiped it out. Took about 15 minutes, including all the looking and admiration. Smoothed things right out. Suppose I need to do the funnels again now..
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