Elitist attitudes among certain hammond players????

[Guest]

I posted this on another forum which I will leave nameless as I don't want the moderators here angry with me.</P>


I wanna see how it fares here.</P>


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<SPAN id=body1>The struggle with confidence thread inspired me to write this one. I screw around a bit with Hammond organ. I own a T-212 and I run a sampler on my computer that has some decent organ patches.
Thing is, there will always be 10 zillion people who play WAY better than me. And when you have a popular instrument like Hammond, those better players are way too easy to find. As a result of this (much like the unattractive girl who hangs with all the hot chicks) you can't help but feel worse about your playing.
I try to foster this attitude that its ok to be mediocre. That is about having fun, and never to compare myself to good players. But its way easier said then done.
I always feel that if I'm not doing crazy hard licks all over the keyboard I'm not really playing, so I try to leap-frog ahead to that point and fail miserably.</SPAN></P>


<SPAN>So dammit, here's my resolution.
1. Find my Genre. ( I kinda like hard-bop secret agent style 50s and 60s organ.)
2. Play simpler stuff well rather than harder stuff crappy.
3. Stop comparing myself to others in a negative way. Rather watch and learn.
4. Be ok with all of this.</SPAN></P>


<SPAN>Equipment wise, I have a 61 note m-audio axiom controller connected to my PC with an EMU 0404 audio interface. I'm thinking that bang for buck wise, something like B4 running on my PC will give me good hammond sound. I have no pedalboard but I do have an expressioni pedal. And I will be using only 1 manual.</SPAN></P>


<SPAN>Given my very modest goals, would getting B4 be a good idea, and result in a fun practical setup? (realizing that until I get a laptop I will have no portability)</SPAN></P>


<SPAN></SPAN></P>


<SPAN>Sorta like this but even less flashy on the right hand.
The guy has a fun easy swing I like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3nrjdqBbOg

Thats a reasonable goal aint it?</SPAN> </P>

[toasterDude]

Re: Elitist attitudes among certain hammond players????



...very interesting. My $.02 is, forget about what everyone else is doing and find your own sound, i.e. what comes natural to you and sounds good to you. As (originally) a guitar player, I used to feel pretty self-deprecating re: my own playing, because so many players can pull off lightning riffs that impress the crowds. AndI never had that overdrive speed to my playing. But after I'd been playing awhile, I realized I had a natural talent for finding blues-type riffs at a moderate speed, but that would really fit the chord progressions and the *song.* So I just went with that, and immediately my playing improved b/c I was no longer trying to do something that felt so unnatural.(then of course a funny thing happened: with practice &amp; experience, the speed thing started to develop for me anyway, on its own! But nowadays I tend not to be very impressed by light-speed noodling anyway.) "Play simpler stuff well rather than harder stuff crappy" - words of wisdom indeed!</P>


Two equipment suggestions:</P>


1) I assume your M-audio controller has a "split" function (i.e., can divide the keyboard totransmit on separate MIDI channels for each half)? If so, work with it: part of what makes the "RokOrgan" patches of the world sound so fake is that they voice the same harmonics for the right hand and left hand. With a real Hammond, as you know from your T212, you can dial in different registrations on each manual, with the drawbars - this allows you to pare down the harmonics in the bass range. This not only sounds more like real Hammond playing, but just plain sounds better (to my ear anyway.)</P>


2) "Secret-agent style 60s organ" ... sounds like you need a combo organ! Crazy retro-cool stuff, if a bit of a pain to work on (check out www.combo-organ.com)</P>


Above all keep playing! With every new instrument I've learned, i've found that 5-10 minutes, *every single day*, is way more effective than an hourlong practice session once a week. Keep an instrument set up so that it's easy to flip on and doodle around for a few minutes... eventually it becomes hard to walk by without stopping and fooling with it - and that's when you really start to learn a lot. anyway good luck with it-</P>


TD</P>

[Guest]

Re: Elitist attitudes among certain hammond players????



Thanks man. This forum is a totally different world (based on your post at least). I love it here.</P>


I will check out that combo organ link right away. Cooool!</P>

[andyg]

Re: Elitist attitudes among certain hammond players????



Hi</P>


I hope we're not elitist here!!</P>


TD's said most of what I would have done.</P>


1 - yes, find your niche. 2 - absolutely. I'd rather hear anyone play a 'simpler' piece really well than perform a half-ready version of something that's beyond them. 3 - Yes, again. Have confidence in what you do, at your level. There will always beplayers better than you, and always some not as good as you. You are unique, build on that. 4 - yes, don't give a **** what people say, unless they are offering you valid constructive criticism (not just sniping!) and trying to help.</P>


Now, virtual organs. Before (excuse the audible pun) B4, check out VB3 from www.soundfonts.it It costs peanuts compared to B4 and is darned good. You can get it to do the key split itself, recognising each part of your keyboard as a separate manual. It has a good leslie sim and all the bells and whistles you'd expect when it comes to customising your virtual Hammond. And it's got some really cheesy Farfisa and Vox sounds as well. I've got it as well as B4 and I use both. You can even set them up the same way, feed them the same tracks and then pan them slightly left and right for a 'double organ, double leslie' effect!</P>


Have fun!</P>


Andy G</P>
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[Guest]

Re: Elitist attitudes among certain hammond players????



<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Read Effortless Mastery by Kenny Werner.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It gave me a great outlook on my playing.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> I highly recommend it. </SPAN></SPAN></P>


<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">http://cgi.--------/Effortless-Maste...3286.m14.l1318</SPAN></SPAN></P>

[Guest]

Re: Elitist attitudes among certain hammond players????

if you think organ players have trouble being compared to the greats... try picking up a guitar.

[Guest]

Re: Elitist attitudes among certain hammond players????



Thanks Andy for all the awesome encouragement! You've always been extremely helpful! (B.T.W. I never did get my vibrato working again on my T-212 haha!)</P>


The other thread I'm speaking of was going well until some dude responded to the clip I posed by calling it sloppy playing. I then went into a tonguein cheek rant about how he was giving the absolute worst kind of response given the "please encourage me" toneof my opening post.</P>


Then of course I was accused of being too thin skinned and told to "man up". Well it was just disastrous after that.</P>


There is such a more reasonable 'family' here. There's acceptance at EVERY level of skill. [ip][:)]</P>


------------------------------------</P>


You're the second person to recommend VB3 to me. Makes me think I should just bite the bullet and get it. B4 was more 'famous' to me, but if you're suggesting VB3 is in the same general ballpark, what the heck! I'm mostly using the sampled organs that came with Proteus VX that was bundled with my EMU 0404, and I find those really good so I have the feeling VB3 will completely boggle me. I think I'll download the demo version tonight![:D]</P>
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[Guest]

Re: Elitist attitudes among certain hammond players????



[quote user="hubcapboy"]if you think organ players have trouble being compared to the greats... try picking up a guitar.
[/quote]</P>


haha! no kidding!</P>

[Guest]

Re: Elitist attitudes among certain hammond players????



In the interest of encouraging you to post whatever you have, here's the 1st day I hooked up my rig in the garage.</p>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn_qNYLnJHI</p>

I hadn't played keys in eight years until I bought this stuff!
</p>

[Guest]

Re: Elitist attitudes among certain hammond players????



Great clip haha!</P>


You get an 'A' for rockin' attitude. I like the footpedal leslie brake and stuff.</P>


Me and my wife were just giggling with delight at that.</P>


See, your clip to me has more humanity and soul to it than one of those elitist snobs would! Because you're a real human being. :)</P>


Great sound from that rig too.</P>


"Gimme soma luvin!.........every day!"</P>

[andyg]

Re: Elitist attitudes among certain hammond players????



VB3 is scarily good for the price. Alongside B4-II, yes, there is a difference, but there are still times when I prefer to use VB3 over B4. The demo should impress you. Have fun.</P>


Andy</P>

[Guest]

Re: Elitist attitudes among certain hammond players????



I'm a little confused.</P>


the website Soundfonts.it lists VB3 for 49 euros, but organized trio for freeware/donation. Whats the difference??</P>


I've heard people say VB3 is only $18 U.S. ????</P>

[Guest]

Re: Elitist attitudes among certain hammond players????



I understand you totally and a lot of times I feel frustrated with my playing, specially when I compare my mediocre playing with the Masters or even a lot of "unknown" players on YouTube.</p>

I came to the conclusion that there's people that was luckier than me, with access to piano/organ when they were kids, a B3 and a Leslie on the house, etc., not to mention being able to read music, incredible fingering et all.
</p>

I'm 54, started playing guitar when I was 16, after that the bass, after a Teisco organ, several keyboards over the years, PC sequencing, etc. just as a hobby. (I never made a living as a musician although I gigged a lot ).</p>

With all this intro, what I'm trying to say is that you need to know your limitations, find your own sound, your own riffs, etc. I have a spinet (M111) that I know it doesn't sound as an A100, C3 or B3 but I try to see the half glass full in what I have. My wife got me recently a Hammond (my first Hammond) after a year of being keyboardless, started playing or practicing on it 3 times a week at least, 30 minutes each of those days and I'm happy with the results, just for my OWN pleasure. I know that I will not play like some guys on this forum -2 keyboards ad pedals- so, knowing my limitations, I bought a month ago some DVD's with loops, started constructing some tunes to "practice" on top of them this new world to me that is Jazz and I'm fascinated by the process.</p>

Here's the link</p>

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&amp;friendid =397217666</p>

Good luck and enjoy what you can do: like it or not, you have a gift.</p>


</p>

</p>

[Guest]

Re: Elitist attitudes among certain hammond players????

Right on man!

[andyg]

Re: Elitist attitudes among certain hammond players????

[quote user="spotty"]


I'm a little confused.</P>


the website Soundfonts.it lists VB3 for 49 euros, but organized trio for freeware/donation. Whats the difference??</P>


I've heard people say VB3 is only $18 U.S. ????</P>


[/quote]</P>


Organized Trio looks like a cut-down version of one of the earlier organ sims from soundfonts. Download it and try it out but remember that it won't be anything like VB3, especially as VB3 has just been updated with lots more sounds and features.</P>


VB3 does cost 49 Euros and the soundfonts.it site is the only place to get it. If someone's cracked VB3 and is selling it for $18, that's up to them, but I'd rather my money went to a guy who is working hard to produce ever better instruments, not to a hacker out to make a quick buck.</P>


49 Euros is not mega-money and VB3 is a bargain for what it is.</P>


Andy</P>