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Hammond M-3 noise associated with percussion switches

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  • Hammond M-3 noise associated with percussion switches

    Hello Organ Forum,

    First off thank everyone for their contributions, there is an endless amount of knowledge stored here. I have been reading quite a few post as I am new to working on Hammond Organs. I have built a few guitar pedals, a single ended tube amp, and restored and modified a '69 fender Bassman.

    I was recently gifted a Hammond Model M-3, Serial number 84470, that is not playable.

    First the symptoms: The spinet now, after oiling with Hammond oil, spools up and runs quietly. However, as the amp warms up a loud hum/buzz starts. It is effected my the volume/expression pedal, the volume switch, and is changed in pitch and texture by flipping the percussion switches. It is also effected but the 4th drawbar from the left for the upper manual. Both manuals seem to work and, when the volume pedal is pushed forward, it seems that they have the correct tone and are changed by the draw bars. Flipping the other vibrato switches does not seem to have much effect on it. It is a pretty throaty buzz.

    What I have tried: I pulled all the tubes out (which are new), sprayed deoxit in the tube sockets, and worked the tubes in and out several times. I sprayed deoxit on the drawbars and exercised them. I marked their position and exercised the percussion cut off control and well as the pedal cut off control. Looked over the wiring and connections to try and find any thing loose. I only found the two sets of brown and black wires coming from the run motor were crimped on the terminal switch but not soldered. I thought this was odd but could not find evidence that they were ever soldered. When I wiggled them while it was running, the run motor lost power and spun down. The noise was not effected. Once I bent them on the terminal strip, It started up and ran as it had. I tapped around on the caps, wires and tubes that are exposed looking for anything microphonic but could not perceive a change in the noise. I was also able to get the percussion switch cover up enough to pull out the felt, spray deoxit around each switch and exercise them. This did not seem to make any difference.

    So this is were I am. I think I've tried all the easy, "you may get lucky" steps and I now I need some guidance. I have started to read into re-caping the tone generator. The one article discussed calibration once the caps were changed. I have also read some comments here that discussed trouble shooting by grounding difference points in the circuit. If someone could link me to a more in-depth discussion on this or explain it further I would be very grateful. Should I have the ground clipped to the amp chassis or the generator chassis? etc.

    I thank anyone in advance for their time, patience, and knowledge.

    -Jesse W. Martin

  • #2
    Try this: Remove the percussion tubes V7 (6C4), V8 (6C4) and V9 (12AU7). Do you still have the hum/buzz?

    Jim

    Comment


    • JesseW
      JesseW commented
      Editing a comment
      Thank you Jim! It worked!! That elimianted the noise that was making it unplayable. There is still some amp hum and it seems to get louder as the volume pedal is turned down. Also, pressing the keys seems to quiet it as well. So I guess now I can troubleshoot just the percussion section of the amp and get that working. Any tips on that? I'll get the amp out and give the undercarriage a look. Many thanks Jim!!!

  • #3
    I did not try that. I'm out of town until Friday so it will have to wait.

    So I'm clear; with the amp off, remove V7, V8, and V9, and then turn it back on. is this correct?

    I forgot to mention. I also tuned the run motor on to warm up the amp and see if it was the vibrato scanner. I got the same result. So I ruled that out

    Thank you Jaim, for the advice I will try that asap and let you know.

    -Jesse

    Comment


    • #4
      It is likely that all the electrolytic caps are shot in the A0-29 amplifier. If you intend to keep this organ it might be worth getting the amp refresh kit from tonewheel general hospital which includes all the electrolytic caps and some resistors that are common failures. You can buy separate parts but the instructions they send you are worth the extra money. If I'm going to restore an organ I just do the cap kits first and then start debugging from there. But I have found it cures most ills, assuming the tubes are all decent. And the 50-60 year old caps are either totally shot or need careful reforming.

      Add a polarized plug and a fuse on the hot side while you're in there. Since you have worked on other tube amps I'm sure you know about the dangers of the high DC voltage ripening around inside.

      Comment


      • JesseW
        JesseW commented
        Editing a comment
        The is good advice. I have looked into the refresh kits and that is definitely on the list of future tasks. Once I get the amp out and give it a look I'll see if I need anything additional for the percussion section. I will also be installing a grounded power cord as well and I will look into the fuse too. So much great info! Thank you very much!!

    • #5
      Originally posted by JesseW View Post
      The is good advice. I have looked into the refresh kits and that is definitely on the list of future tasks. Once I get the amp out and give it a look I'll see if I need anything additional for the percussion section. I will also be installing a grounded power cord as well and I will look into the fuse too. So much great info! Thank you very much!!
      Read up on adding a ground wire. Not an expert but it can create problems. I do not add a ground wire, just a fuse on the hot side and a polarized 2 prong plug. Or you could fuse both sides and not sweat the polarization.

      Comment


      • #6
        Originally posted by tmccann View Post
        Read up on adding a ground wire. Not an expert but it can create problems. I do not add a ground wire, just a fuse on the hot side and a polarized 2 prong plug. Or you could fuse both sides and not sweat the polarization.
        Thank you, I will read up. Unfortunately I've had a run of non organ related responsibilities pop up and I've had no time to work on it. I did receive a refresh kit for tone wheel hospital so I will be going after it soon. Thanks again!

        Comment


        • #7
          Well I finally finished installing the refresh kit from Tonewheel General Hospital. The organ now sound great and all keys, pedals, switches and draw bars function perfectly. Only issue now is the expression pedal is popping/thumping when it’s moved. No supper loud but makes it not really usable. If anyone has suggestions, that would be great. It’s a great sounding organ and I super happy with it. Okay he kids love it too!

          Comment


          • #8
            If the thumping is at the expression limits, then the range needs to be adjusted If the thumping is pedal mid range, it is possible there is something in the dog house hitting the variable air capacitor. Remove the cover (4 screws) and have a look.

            Jim

            Comment


            • JesseW
              JesseW commented
              Editing a comment
              It’s mid range. I will take a look. Thank you!!

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