Props for Hammond tone cabs!

[toasterDude]

...so I *finally* got to hear the '59 C3 I picked up back in May tonight. It came with a PR20, from an estate sale, but for whatever reason the annoying Hammond 5-to-6 pin cable was nowhere to be found. Today I finally got around to wiring up a 5-to-6 pin cable, so I was able to connect the C3 and the PR20 for the first time. And... ... ... wow! Everyone always seems to denigrate the original Hammond tone cabs in favor of Leslies, but I have to say I was really getting into the sounds the PR20 was able to crank out.</P>


--OK, so the animation isn't there (scanner vibrato not working[:(]), but I was blown away by three things: 1) Bass. The front-firing 15" is an original Jensen, and boy is it beefy. 2) Tube warmth. The longer I played it, the better it sounded... in fact the louder the better also! 3) Did I mention, Bass!?! Wow this thing can push some air! (and I didn't even have the pedals hooked up yet)</P>


So I'm thinking when I can rig up an Echo setup with both the PR20 and a Leslie, this is going to be just too much. Long story short: for my money's worth, don't let anyone tell you the old Hammond cabs are worthless (or worse, "firewood" as some people would say). --For a home, studio, or church installation they could really get it done. Don't get me wrong, I couldn't do without a Leslie, but I'd have to say it looks to me like a PR20 + Leslie would be a far better setup than just the Leslie alone. Any other Hammond testimonials? ("can I get a witness?" LOL)</P>


TD</P>

[Guest]

Re: Props for Hammond tone cabs!

I don't know that I have heard one.  I know I have never heard it in person, but I would like to check it out.  I have been using a crappy peavy along with the leslie to give some more power to the bass.

[Model E & Me]

Re: Props for Hammond tone cabs!



You've got it right, in my opinion. The PR-20 (or in my case PR-40) has a low end the Leslie can't match, especially if it is in a corner, and a brighter high end. The Leslie has a much warmer midrange. I do have the Main-Echo setup, but my experience is that I almost never play through just one or the other - it is almost always both. Just doesn't sound right otherwise.</P>


How's the reverb on your PR? That adds a dimension I wouldn't want to be without either.</P>

[toasterDude]

Re: Props for Hammond tone cabs!

[quote user="Model E &amp; Me"]


How's the reverb on your PR? That adds a dimension I wouldn't want to be without either.</P>


[/quote]</P>


Unfortunately it's not working yet. I had it working for a few minutes yesterday, but with considerable hiss and some crackling; then it died again. Now I don't even get the crashing effect if I rap the necklace springs. From what I've read there's a germanium transistor at the reverb recovery stage that commonly goes bad -- so I'll replace that and see if it helps.</P>


It seems like the reverb recovery was the weakest link in these Hammond cabs - I had a JR20 with dead reverb, and it just turned out to be a bad tube. Unfortunately it was kind of a rare tube -- a 6SC7 I think -- cost me like $20! The JR20 had the older oil reverb, where the springs are enclosed in brass tubes, which you fill with oil to dampen the springs. Kind of a weird reverb sound but it grew on me! Anyway cheers-</P>


Scott</P>

[Guest]

Re: Props for Hammond tone cabs!

i have an hr-40 that i've powered with a P.A. amp, and it has a lot of punch.

[geoelectro]

Re: Props for Hammond tone cabs!

Now I don't even get the crashing effect if I rap the necklace springs. From what I've read there's a germanium transistor at the reverb recovery stage that commonly goes bad -- so I'll replace that and see if it helps.

The Shielded cable on the necklace reverbs go bad too. I would suggest replacing it as well.

</p>

George</p>

[toasterDude]

Re: Props for Hammond tone cabs!

[quote user="geoelectro"]The Shielded cable on the necklace reverbs go bad too. I would suggest replacing it as well.


George</P>


[/quote]</P>


Thanks, George. I assume you mean the reverb "return" cable -- the one terminating in the RCA plug that connects back into the amp chassis?If so you may be onto something... the few minutes I actually had reverb wereright afterI had unplugged and reseatedthat RCA connector. But now I get nothing no matter how much I fool with the connection. thanks again-</P>


Scott</P>

[Model E & Me]

Re: Props for Hammond tone cabs!



Definitely start with the return cable. Easier to do and more likely to correct the problem.</P>


I agree with you about the oil reverb. Odd sounding by today's standards, but a vast improvement over nothing in the 1940's, and it does grow on you. Overall, the HR-40 and JR-20 were not bad sounding in their day, but the reverb on the PR-20/40 was a big improvement..</P>

[back52887]

Re: Props for Hammond tone cabs!



The doppler effect of a whirling upper rotor (ie: raising and lowering the pitch) playing against the steady pitch of a standard speaker adds a celeste (chorus) effect to the overall sound[Y], and is foundational to those charismatic churches who have not replaced it with a praise band[+o(] for congregational singing.</P>


Lee</P>

[Clavier]

Re: Props for Hammond tone cabs!



I hear you Scott. Those Hammond cabs do sound sweet. In fact, I like them better than Leslies in many ways. I am currently (still...) looking for a PR-40 and HR-40 to go on the main channel of my Hammond. Then I will get a Leslie 31H for the echo channel. Should be a good setup. I hope to treat my E to something cool too. Like a Marshall JTM 100 on the main and Leslie 145 on echo. </p>

</p>

-Joe
</p>

[Hammond101]

Re: Props for Hammond tone cabs!

[quote user="back52887"]


The doppler effect of a whirling upper rotor (ie: raising and lowering the pitch) playing against the steady pitch of a standard speaker adds a celeste (chorus) effect to the overall sound[Y],[/quote]</P>


Yes! Running in ensemble mode the effect of the Leslie against my HR40 is a huge enhancement of the Leslie effect. I rarely use echo or main only.</P>


Scott, </P>


I agree that Hammond tone cabs are under-rated. The HR40 along with my Leslie produces huge bass. With the RT3 and the solo bass unit it can be thunderous. It is over the top even without kicking in the 32' stops. There is something about 9 - 10" Jensens in the tone cab that at least to me, makes bass like no 15" speaker(s) (PR20/40) can. With a conbined 80 watts of tube power and my trim cranked up for growl, the rig is quite loud. </P>


I fiddled with the oil level in my HR40's reverb spring tubes and got the reverb sounding a little more modern. I believe I lowered the oil level a bit for less dampening and then turned the level back a bit on the amp chassis.</P>


H101</P>

[Model E & Me]

Re: Props for Hammond tone cabs!



...The doppler effect of a whirling upper rotor (ie: raising and lowering the pitch) playing against the steady pitch of a standard speaker adds a celeste (chorus) effect to the overall sound</P>


And since the Leslie has a gain control the depth of the celeste effect is quite adjustable. Unfortunately, not from the console without a little work...</P>