Silent M-111

[Guest]

Hello I'm the new guy. I just inherited grandma's Hammond M-111 and it wont make a sound. I have filled the 3 filler cups half full</p>

on two seperate occasions but no sound. I hold the start switch for an 8 count then add the run switch for another 4 or 5 sec. The</p>

start switch makes a healthy whir but the run switch seems silent. I do notice that when the run switch is on the tubes light up but</p>

Alas, not a sound yet. I downloaded a 108 page service manual from eBay but it's all very technical. Can anyone out there help me troubleshoot</p>

this old beauty back to life?? Thank you any and all Mark
</p>

[geoelectro]

Re: Silent M-111



Take the cover off the tone generator. There is a row of screws on the bottom of the cover and about 4 or 5 screws along the top. Just loosen the top screws as they do not have to be totally removed.</p>

You will see the run motor on the left (treble) end of the generator. There is a shaft between the motor and gen. See if you can spin it by hand. If it's hard to turn, see if it's hard on the generator side, or the motor side, or both. In other words, there is some play with this coupler allowing each side to turn slightly independently of the other. If the generator side is hard to turn, you will have to oil it some more and just turn the shaft by hand until it begins to free up. It takes the oil about a week or more to get to where it's going.</p>

If the motor side is hard to turn, you can try sliding the shaft with the flywheel from left to right. Normally, there should be some play allowing it to easily slide back and forth. If it's stuck, it will appear that no sliding is possible. Go ahead and gently force it, it will slide. This is a much quicker way to free up the motor shaft. While we're on the motor, if you filled the filler cups up twice, the oiling tub on the motor is likely overfilled. The felt in the tub should be moist but not filled up. Remove any excess oil with a paper towel. Excess oil will drain into the vibrato scanner causing more trouble.</p>

Lastly, once the generator and motor are free and you are able to start it, you may have some squealling tone wheels. You will likely have to go under the tone generator and oil the offending tone wheels directly until the squealling stops. You can safely use WD-40 for this which is fairly quick.</p>

Good luck!</p>

George
</p>

[Guest]

Re: Silent M-111



Thank you so very much for your time in replying George. I know that grandma is sitting on my shoulder waiting</p>

patiently a song or two. I will follow your instruction to a tee and let you know how it goes. God Bless Mark
</p>

[Guest]

Re: Silent M-111

Your problem could be a simple wiring one. Check your speaker wires, and trace them back to the amp. If everything is connected properly(check the manual), then you might have a bigger problem. Look for an add-on switch. These are used to connect headphones. It is possible, the switch is turned to the 'headphone' setting, which cuts off the speakers. If this is the case, there should be no problem, just flip the switch.

[Guest]

Re: Silent M-111



Hello again George, Well I followed your instructions to a tee. first of all, you were right about the oil tub on the motor. it was just</p>

ready to overflow. I sopped it up with a paper towel. I don't know about the shaft. it seemed to turn free and move from side to side</p>

easily but when I turn the thing closest to the generator if feels a little stiff. in any case I tried to start it about ten times while watching it with</p>

a flashlight. NO SOUND except a low hum when I hit run. The last time I tried the little spring loaded wheel to the far left (motor side) started to </p>

turn and gave a sudden stop. Am I on the right track?? Thanks again for yours or any other answers. P.S. Couldn't find any sort of </p>

headphone plug in or switch.
</p>

[Guest]

Re: Silent M-111

Well, at least you ruled out the switch theory.

[geoelectro]

Re: Silent M-111



So, a stuck generator. Maybe even a stuck start motor. Look at the start motor on the right (bass end) and you will see the shaft sticking out to the right. See if you can push it in with your finger. It should easily move in and out. You may try oiling it directly.</p>

Once the start motor is moving in and out, it should spin when the start switch is engaged. Now, it engages to the generator which seems sluggish or stuck. Try turning the shaft between the run motor and generator near the generator end. It may be hard at first but should free up with some effort. Eventually, it should free up enough for the start motor to engage and start spinning up the generator. Once you get it turning, it will free up very quick. Be patient. This can go slow at first.</p>

You may experience some squealing when it starts running. That would be from dry bearings. You will likely have to lift the generator up enough to get some WD-40 spray in. Spray at the noise until it stops. That's it. The oil you put in will make its way to the bearings. The WD-40 will keep it lubricated until that happens.</p>

George
</p>

[Guest]

Re: Silent M-111



I am so frustrated....... at the extreme right (bass end) I found a small pin sticking out maybe an inch and a half which was attached at the end </p>

by a tiny wire. I pushed the pin in but not enough finger room to pull it out again. inside, just to the left was a shaft and some gears. The shaft</p>

seemed to move freely from side to side and I noticed when I hit the start switch everything spins. Meanwhile at the other end nothing moves.</p>

I've noticed with the power off, everything spins freely but when the run switch is on it's almost impossible to turn. I'm so afraid I'll brake something</p>

God bless You people with knowledge and patience. Thank you...Mark
</p>

[geoelectro]

Re: Silent M-111



OK. You say everything spins on the bass end with the start motor etc. But nothing moves on the left/treble end. The start motor has a small gear that plunges into the generator and meshes with a larger gear. Do both gears mesh and spin?</p>

George
</p>

[Guest]

Re: Silent M-111



HALLELUJAH WE'VE DONE IT BY "GEORGE" As I was watching the 2 gears suddenly meshed and everything started spinning</p>

And I mean EVERYTHING. even the run motor end and low and behold I had beautifull sound. GOD BLESS YOU SIR. Now is there anything</p>

special I should do to keep it running? (I'm afraid to shut it off) Gratefully Mark O
</p>

[geoelectro]

Re: Silent M-111



Nope. It should work now. I would just try it again when you turn it off. Maybe start it up several times to make sure the starting mechanisms are free and in good shape. Keep it well oiled! [:D]</p>

George
</p>

[Guest]

Re: Silent M-111



Hello again George, Well I thought I was done bothering you but it seems that I have a brand new problem. The foot pedals...</p>

I made the mistake of pressing one down which caused an extremely loud hum. touching other pedals had no effect on the hum</p>

or the tone. even with the drawbar pushed all the way in you could here it. I ended up physically lifting each pedal up until it stopped.</p>

Any Ideas ?? Your new adopted son, Mark
</p>

[geoelectro]

Re: Silent M-111



Not yet. Can you better describe the hum? There are pedal tones that if got stuck on might be described as hum by some. Hum usually comes from either a 60hz or 120hz source. That "pitch" is between B and Bb. You could compare it to the notes on the keyboard. Did the drawbar reduce this hum or not?</p>

Even if the other pedals did not change the sound, it could still be a pedal tone. There are mechanics in the pedal switch assembly that may need to be looked at. Since there are thirteen identical mechanisms, it's easy enough to compare them to each other for similar operation. There is a pedal preamp tube on the amp right next to the 5U4. (6BA6) You might try pulling it out to see if the hum goes away. You might also try adjusting the pot under that tube which sets the cutoff level.</p>

George
</p>

[moominclancy]

hi George - I am also a new guy (girl actually) and have been keenly following this advice as I have a M-111 with a similar issue - and its all coming down to the small gear on the starter motor not being able to mesh with the larger one - I can hear it spinning and trying its best but it just won't mesh to kick the generator into action. The start motor pin/shaft moves in and out freely and everything else seems to turn fine - especially as I properly oiled it 2 weeks ago. Am sooooo keen to get this thing working myself as we hauled it up to our second floor apartment in Queens haha... dedication. Twas working fine till recently (apparently) for one elderly owner. which wasn't me. Any advice for that end of the problem - the gears not meshing? Thanks to all you wise hammond lovers on this thread! A worthy pursuit.

[Wes]

Most like the problem is that the "bendix" on the motor needs lubrication. Just stick your finger on the end of the shaft and push it into the generator as you try to start the organ, it should mesh, and that might be enough to get any gunk on the shaft pushed aside.