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  • New Hammond C3 & Leslie 122 [some questions]



    Hello there! I am new to these forums, and have owned a Hammond &amp; Leslie for a little over 24 hours. To make a long story short, I have always wanted a Hammond and Leslie, and this past week, I discovered that a local church was giving away a C3 and a 122, so I ended up with them.</p>

    </p>

     </p>

    After doing some research yesterday, I believe that the Hammond C3 is from 1957 based on the serial number. It has been in a few different churches over the past 40 years, and before that, was donated to a church by the original owners, a local family. The organ is in pretty good condition, but the reason it was being given away is that it supposedly wasn't working, and the church bought a new digital organ, and could thus afford to part with this one.</p>

    When I got the organ home, I fired it up, and the first time, there wasn't any sound. The second time, it worked! The third try later on, nothing... The 4th try, and every subsequent attempt, success! So I'm thinking that it probably just needs to be serviced with some Hammond Oil, and possibly a look at the starter switch. Otherwise, it appears to be in pretty good shape. It's missing one key, but those are easy to replace. I am thinking about having a local Hammond service center send someone out next weekend to take a look. How much would a service like that cost, generally? I'm new at this ;)</p>

     ....</p>

    Now onto the Leslie. I am primarily a guitar player, so my interest in the Leslie speaker originally came from its use with a guitar from players like George Harrison and Eric Clapton. In fact, George Harrison's guitar tone on the song "It Don't Come Easy" at the Concert for Bangladesh (in which Billy Preston was also featured with a Hammond/Leslie) is the first time I can remember learning about a Leslie speaker. As such, I have always been interested in the 122, 145, and 147 models, as they're the ones Harrison and Clapton are likely to have used.</p>

    My Leslie is a little confusing though. The back panel has a black &amp; white metallic ID tag that says Leslie 122 with a SN that would indicate a model from early 1964, I believe. However, at the bottom of the cabinet, the amplifier says "Type 22H." After I saw that, I started to research the 22H and discovered that they were made between 1958-1963, and that they were single speed tube-driven cabinets. However, when I fired up the C3, I was able to switch between the tremolo AND chorale speeds, so I went searching for more evidence.</p>

    I discovered that you can also date a Leslie cabinet by looking for the 4-digit code on the lower baffle. After loosening the Jensen speaker enough to slide it out of the way for a second, I found a code, "3389," indicating the 338th day of 1959... which would certainly indicate a 22H cabinet.</p>

    However, given the fact that this organ spent the past 40 years in a church, is it possible that this Leslie was originally a 22H, and then upgraded to a two-speed 122 by Hammond personnel (maybe via a service contract with the church?) then given a new Leslie 122 ID tag from the factory? I would imagine any church hearing of the new two-speed Leslies would have wanted their single speed models (like the 22H) upgraded to give them the new sound.</p>

    ....</p>

    And lastly, I was wondering if anyone here could help me with the guitar aspect of a Leslie speaker. I would like to be able to use my Leslie with the C3 and a guitar... I am aware that models like the 145 and 147 can be equipped with a Leslie combo pre-amp to accommodate a 1/4" cable. However, I think that newer pre-amp pedals like the Trek II UC-1A and the Hamptone LPRE3 can accommodate Leslie 122 models as well. Would this be the best solution? Someone told me that there was a way around it, to use the RCA jack on the Hammond's volume pedal, but my C3 doesn't have one (maybe it's too old?)</p>

    Thank you very much! I look forward to learning more about these great instruments! </p>

    I have a bunch of pictures of the C3 and the 122, but I need to figure out how to post them here first :). </p>

  • #2
    Re: New Hammond C3 &amp; Leslie 122 [some questions]



    The input you are searching for is located on the organ preamp's (AO-28) swell box. It will most likely be covered with a male RCA plug. It may not work very well for guitar unles you run a line level output from that cool lookin' AC30 2-12 you have there! The correct combo preamp would work best if you can find one.</P>


    Your Leslie is a bit of a mystery. The cabinet is a reverb type as from 122RV, 147RV or 251. The center louvers on the sides indicate this. Since it has a 122 tag on it I would guess it started life as a 122RV. It may have fragged an amp so a 22H was used as a replacement that had been converted for 2-speed use. The date code you seek is on the frame of the Jensen bass driver. It will be six digits starting with 220, the manufacturer code for Jensen. The remaing three digits will be your date (year and week) of manufacture. It is not unusual for component codes to predate the entire unit. The speaker and rotor could be a year of two newer than the Leslie or more. It could also be a Frankenleslie but for free who cares!</P>


    What a great find, a C3 and a full sized two speed Leslie for Free! Congrats. </P>


    Your starting issue could be switches but is most likely a lack of oil. The starter motor should engage immediately when your hit the starts switch. Take the back off the organ and look at the start motor while engaging the switch. If it spinns but doesn't engage, oil is manually with Hammond oil. If it doesn't even try to move when you hit the start switch, it will be the switch that is begining to fail. In any case the organ will need a lube job ASAP.</P>


    Try your pics in the photo gallery, there is a button at the top of the page. Please take no offense to this but the water bottles on the Leslie and the console are an accident waiting for a place to happen. The nitro-laquer finish will spot very easily.</P>


    Best,</P>


    H101</P>

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: New Hammond C3 &amp; Leslie 122 [some questions]

      [quote user="Hammond101"]

      The input you are searching for is located on the organ preamp's (AO-28) swell box. It will most likely be covered with a male RCA plug. It may not work very well for guitar unles you run a line level output from that cool lookin' AC30 2-12 you have there! The correct combo preamp would work best if you can find one.[/quote]</p>

      Thank you! I think I might just wait until I get a pre-amp pedal before I try to run a guitar through the Leslie. :)</p>

      [quote user="Hammond101"]Your Leslie is a bit of a mystery. The cabinet is a reverb type as from 122RV, 147RV or 251. The center louvers on the sides indicate this. Since it has a 122 tag on it I would guess it started life as a 122RV. It may have fragged an amp so a 22H was used as a replacement that had been converted for 2-speed use. The date code you seek is on the frame of the Jensen bass driver. It will be six digits starting with 220, the manufacturer code for Jensen. The remaing three digits will be your date (year and week) of manufacture. It is not unusual for component codes to predate the entire unit. The speaker and rotor could be a year of two newer than the Leslie or more. It could also be a Frankenleslie but for free who cares![/quote]</p>

      Yeah, the Leslie is a little bit of a mystery. The pastor of the church that gave it to me told me that it has been in a few different churches (locations) for the past 40 years, and before that, it was owned by one family. So that's why I thought perhaps a church in the mid 60s had desired a 22H to be upgraded to a 2-speed model, but who knows! If the center louvers indicate that this could be a reverb type model, then what do you think about the lower baffle saying "3389"? I thought that meant the Leslie cabinet was from the 338th day of 1959, or am I reading that wrong? I am new at this :)</p>

      I already removed the water bottles by the way... sorry about that!</p>

       </p>

      Let me try to put up a few more pictures:</p>

       Thank you!</p>

      Stuart</p>

       </p>

       </p>

       </p>

       </p>

       </p>

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: New Hammond C3 &amp; Leslie 122 [some questions]

        By the way, I checked my Jensen speaker, and it says 220245 on it...

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: New Hammond C3 &amp; Leslie 122 [some questions]



          Your second pic seals the deal. It started life as a 22RV (that explaines the side louvers &amp; your early date codes) and some one converted it to 2-speed. It looks like the metal tag was changed on the back pannel.There should be signs of a circular box that once covered the upper single speed motor if you look at the top shelp from the bottom side. What amp is in it 22H or 122? Not that it makes much difference once the conversion is complete. They both have the coveted 6550 output tubes I believe.</P>


          In any case you got a real nice rig at one heck of a deal. That thing will serve you well for a long time and will have "the" sound that everyone wants out of a Hammond/Leslie.</P>


          H101</P>

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: New Hammond C3 &amp; Leslie 122 [some questions]



            Hey there! Thank you for all of this information!</p>

            You were correct about there being signs of a circular box that once covered the upper single speed motor. I am at lunch right now at work, but when I get home tonight, I will try to take a few more pictures of the inner components of the Leslie.</p>

            The amplifier says "Type 22H" on it... and you are correct, it does have 2 6550 output tubes.</p>

            I know it's nearly impossible to speculate, but who do you think would have had the Leslie upgraded to a 2-speed? I am kind of assuming it occurred sometime in the mid-1960s, because I've read that the metallic ID tags (like the one I have that says Model 122) indicate pre-1966 models. I know that it's easy to add a tag like that at any point, but since this C3 &amp; Leslie were in a church at this time, I would think it was somewhat of an organized conversion to 2 speed...</p>

            So what should I call this? Can I call it a 122? :p
            </p>


            Actually, here are a couple of pictures I had uploaded to my server:</p>

            </p>

            </p>


            </p>

            </p>


            </p>

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: New Hammond C3 &amp; Leslie 122 [some questions]



              I'd call it a 122. You could call it a 22H with two speed mod also. There really is no way to know who modded it or when but either way it is a good thing for you! Gotta love that slow chorale speed setting. I can't see from the pics but since this cab no longer or never had reverb, you might want to seal off the reverb louvers if that is not done already. This will improve bass response of the lower driver. The trianglular cutout in the lower baffle board is a tuned port and all you need to get the most out of that Jensen P15LL.</P>


              If you removed the metal 122 tag you might find a 22H tag under it, the stick on type, never know. I noticed in the pic of your amp some wiring (white zip cord &amp; what looks like a speaker lead) that looked like it may be touching the rectifier tube or very close to it. You might want to route that wiring away from any heat source that could melt the insulation. Other than that it looks like they did a fairly clean job of the conversion. Enjoy.</P>


              H101</P>

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: New Hammond C3 &amp; Leslie 122 [some questions]



                Man... you got one lucky deal there!</p>

                I actually got a free C-3 and 22R, but it was left out in the rain for two weeks, and serverley thrashed around by whoever moved it out to the dumpster.  On that note, does anyone have any information on the use of the reverb on the 22R?  I can't get mine to work at all....  Sorry to divert the post....</p>

                 Again, you have an awesome local church!  </p>

                Robbie </p>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: New Hammond C3 &amp; Leslie 122 [some questions]



                  This amp does not have a rectifier tube if i'm not mistaken, and I'd say the speaker output on this style amp uses the same socket location as the 'break' jumper on the 100 series amps. The other black and white chords should be the 2nd set of motor plugs. To me, that "rectifier tube" looks like the end of an ampenol socket (maybe for the reverb that doesn't exist?) I have never seen such a socket at that location</p>

                  Comment

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