Was Don Leslie ever satisfied?

[NittyRanks]

I just had the opportunity to test a bunch of Leslie Speakers at my buddies dealership this weekend; 122, 145, 610, 44W, 147, 710, 771, and an 860. What interested me is that I wonder if Don Leslie ever got what he wanted? My friend is a good tech and said Don was a good guy and very driven. He said that he thought Don did not get the sound he had in his head ever so he was always trying new things. He promoted the foam drums for instance which a lot of people just don’t like. It seems like people just like the vintage Leslie’s more than anything though <SPAN class=edited-wording></SPAN>

[andyg]

Re: Was Don Leslie ever satisfied?



Funny, of all the models you mention, the biggest pile of junk has to be the 610. I've tried it on the two Hammonds it's supposed to match, the H100 and R100 and it sounds awful on both. Oh, how I hate that cab!</p>

However, it would have probably been Don Leslie's choice, as he favoured the theatre organ type of tremolo. The 610's Rotosonic for the flutes and 'baby', 1/2 speed, double-speakered mini-Rotosonic on the complex voices. In his own home set-up, he used leslie only on strings, I believe.</p>

The 610, the illegitimate love-child of earlier, better cabs like the 10x and 20x series, would, if you could hook it up to something like a 1970's Conn, probably do the kind of job that Don Leslie would have approved of.</p>

What cab did you like best?</p>

Andy
</p>

[NittyRanks]

Re: Was Don Leslie ever satisfied?

Well I like the 142 if I could get one.They seem to be the rarest. We were also hooking up DX-20 cabinets just to see what it would sound like. It had that old radio show sound of the 30's. I like short Cabnets. My buddy has a mint 610 that he is selling with an old XK-2 as a unit.

[jimmywilliams]

Re: Was Don Leslie ever satisfied?



Hi Andy. You should be aware that the610 (and the electronically identical 205 - at least to my understanding) really can't be hooked up to any other organexcept for the Hammonds it was designed to work with - UNLESS it is re-wired.Using it as stock-wired will be disasterous for other organs- I can speak with certainty about the Gulbransen organs but I assume this will cause problems with the Connorgans too. The main culpritis Pin 2 from the amp - it carries a 125vDC line back to the console. I have no idea why, but it does. Here is the 9-pin pinout from my understanding. If I am wrong please let me know.</P>


Pin 1 Ground
Pin 2 125v DC (goes from amp power supply TO console??)
Pin 3 Amp 4 input (switched to either lower rotor or 6x9 stationary)
Pin 4 Amp 2 input (to 15" speaker)
Pin 5 Amps 1 and 3 input (to top rotor)
Pin 6 Lower rotor audio switching relay (for amp 4)
Pin 7 Lower rotor - fast/slow motor speed control relay
Pin 8 AC
Pin 9 AC</P>


- jim</P>

[geoelectro]

Re: Was Don Leslie ever satisfied?



[quote user="NittyRanks"]I just had the opportunity to test a bunch of Leslie Speakers at my buddies dealership this weekend; 122, 145, 610, 44W, 147, 710, 771, and an 860. What interested me is that I wonder if Don Leslie ever got what he wanted? My friend is a good tech and said Don was a good guy and very driven. He said that he thought Don did not get the sound he had in his head ever so he was always trying new things. He promoted the foam drums for instance which a lot of people just don’t like. It seems like people just like the vintage Leslie’s more than anything though <span class="edited-wording"></span>[/quote]</p>

Check out this link of Don Leslie's Home Organ.</p>

http://www.137.com/donleslie/</p>

</p>

[andyg]

Re: Was Don Leslie ever satisfied?



Hence "if you could hook it up...", Jim! Still, with a snip (or omission) of one wire, you could make up some form of kit.

</p>

I wonder what the heck the 125v DC is for. I can't recall finding that when I did connect the 610 up to the R and H</p>

Andy
</p>

[toasterDude]

Re: Was Don Leslie ever satisfied?



[quote user="NittyRanks"]Well I like the 142 if I could get one.They seem to be the rarest.[/quote]</P>


Agreed, you hardly ever see 142s come up for sale. I remember a post by Harvey Olsen on another list - he said the 142 was basically an afterthought. Of course the 122 was Hammond-specific (full sized, single channel, balanced output);whereas Leslie had made the "universal" 147s to go with many other manufacturers' organs (full sized, single channel, unbalanced output.) Then they made the "shortie" 145 cabinet, presumably to appeal to spinet owners who were concerned about size/space.Then eventually(Harvey says) they kind of looked at the 145, and looked at the 122, and looked back at the 145 again... and said, heck why don't we put out a shortie model for Hammonds?!? Because they realized, they already had 122 amps and shortie cabinets lined up and ready to go; just a matter of pairing them up. Apparently this happened pretty late in the game (compared to the 145), so there are far fewer 142s kicking around out there. ... ... anyway for my part I'd also like to find a 330 (solid-state, "Proline" case with tolex, casters, etc.) -- but they seem to be really rare too. I see 760s all the time, but almost no 330s... who knows why? LOL</P>


TD</P>

[Guest]

Re: Was Don Leslie ever satisfied?



hey guys, don't want to hijack this thread but can leslies be set up to ramp up speed faster they normally do?</p>

"all of me" by willie nelson, has organ in the song that goes from choral to tremolo really fast and i was wondering how he did that.</p>

 </p>

do some leslies ramp up faster then others? </p>

[geoelectro]

Re: Was Don Leslie ever satisfied?



First, there are more than one kind of Leslie. The "standard" commercial type has two rotors. (122/147 etc.) The upper rotor ramps up very fast, while the lower rotor takes about 8 to 10 secs. It's this difference in speeds that adds much to the effect. There is an 800Hz crossover so signal above 800Hz goes to the upper rotor while signals below 800Hz goes to the lower one. So, how an organ is set can emphasize one or the other rotor effect. Also, how it's mic'd in the studio or stage.</p>

Another type is the single rotor full range Leslie typically used by guitar players. (model 16 etc.) These are like having just the lower rotor of a two rotor Leslie so everything running through it will have the slower ramp-up effect.</p>

There is some adjustment that can affect the speeds but not much.</p>

Lastly, if it was possible to have the speeds switch instantly, much would be lost in the beauty of the Leslie effect. The speeding up and slowing down of the Leslie is wonderful. So much so that many players try to live in that zone. They switch speeds constantly trying to keep the rotors always either speeding up or slowing down.</p>

George
</p>

[NittyRanks]

Re: Was Don Leslie ever satisfied?

[quote user="toasterDude"]


[quote user="NittyRanks"]Well I like the 142 if I could get one.They seem to be the rarest.[/quote]</P>


Agreed, you hardly ever see 142s come up for sale. I remember a post by Harvey Olsen on another list - he said the 142 was basically an afterthought. Of course the 122 was Hammond-specific (full sized, single channel, balanced output);whereas Leslie had made the "universal" 147s to go with many other manufacturers' organs (full sized, single channel, unbalanced output.) Then they made the "shortie" 145 cabinet, presumably to appeal to spinet owners who were concerned about size/space.Then eventually(Harvey says) they kind of looked at the 145, and looked at the 122, and looked back at the 145 again... and said, heck why don't we put out a shortie model for Hammonds?!? Because they realized, they already had 122 amps and shortie cabinets lined up and ready to go; just a matter of pairing them up. Apparently this happened pretty late in the game (compared to the 145), so there are far fewer 142s kicking around out there. ... ... anyway for my part I'd also like to find a 330 (solid-state, "Proline" case with tolex, casters, etc.) -- but they seem to be really rare too. I see 760s all the time, but almost no 330s... who knows why? LOL</P>


TD</P>


[/quote]</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>


Well there was 2 in Niagara Falls 2 years ago for $600 a piece. I should have bid on them and drove there and got them and worried about paying for it later. I do see tons of 145's around. I just think that and 330, 860's are rare. I am sure some are stored in garages and things. </P>

[Subaru]

Re: Was Don Leslie ever satisfied?

[quote user="geoelectro"]

First, there are more than one kind of Leslie. The "standard" commercial type has two rotors. (122/147 etc.) The upper rotor ramps up very fast, while the lower rotor takes about 8 to 10 secs. It's this difference in speeds that adds much to the effect. There is an 800Hz crossover so signal above 800Hz goes to the upper rotor while signals below 800Hz goes to the lower one. So, how an organ is set can emphasize one or the other rotor effect. Also, how it's mic'd in the studio or stage.</p>

Another type is the single rotor full range Leslie typically used by guitar players. (model 16 etc.) These are like having just the lower rotor of a two rotor Leslie so everything running through it will have the slower ramp-up effect.</p>

There is some adjustment that can affect the speeds but not much.</p>

Lastly, if it was possible to have the speeds switch instantly, much would be lost in the beauty of the Leslie effect. The speeding up and slowing down of the Leslie is wonderful. So much so that many players try to live in that zone. They switch speeds constantly trying to keep the rotors always either speeding up or slowing down.</p>

George
</p>

[/quote]</p>

</p>

We have a A-100 hooked up to a Leslie 771 (it was rewired to work with it) I really hate that instant speed change.. like you said it really kill the Leslie effect when switching from slow to fast.</p>

</p>

I doubt I can do much about it? </p>

</p>

btw my buddy does the switching like that has I had to fix the switch box twice!!</p>

</p>

And I really wished they went for a tube driven Leslie.. As of now if you split the sound with the Leslie and the A-100 you can hear the tube amps driving into the Leslie which makes for an interesting sound... </p>

</p>

</p>

[andyg]

Re: Was Don Leslie ever satisfied?



Although the usual idea is that the valve (tube) leslies are best, there are some who also like the sheer grunt of the solid state models. I have an original 1971 (ish) walnut 760 - basically the same as that 771, and I think it sounds great, and not way too different to my previous 147's and 145's. Not the same, sure, and not as good, but not way off.</p>

As for the speed change, only the horn changes (almost) instantly of course, with the drum following a few seconds later. That split, for me, is part of the beauty of the speed change effect.</p>

Andy
</p>

[andyg]

Re: Was Don Leslie ever satisfied?



Although the usual idea is that the valve (tube) leslies are best, there are some who also like the sheer grunt of the solid state models. I have an original 1971 (ish) walnut 760 - basically the same as that 771, and I think it sounds great, and not way too different to my previous 147's and 145's. Not the same, sure, and not as good, but not way off.</p>

As for the speed change, only the horn changes (almost) instantly of course, with the drum following a few seconds later. That split, for me, is part of the beauty of the speed change effect.</p>

Andy
</p>

[jimmywilliams]

Re: Was Don Leslie ever satisfied?



Hi Andy. I was wondering again about the 125vDC on pin 2 for the 610/205. It looks like it is B+ to power the connector kit circuit (some sort of line amp from what I can tell??) that is part of the 8040 connector kit:</P>


http://www.fishorgans.com/leslie_kit...or_Hammond.pdf</P>


Whether Mr. Leslie was ever satisfied - from what I understand he was most proud of the 102/103 pair because supposedly it came closer tosimulating a pipe organ when properly used. Maybe I'm biased??</P>


With many rotosonic cabs the switching from trem to "off" is by definition instantaneous since you are just switching from a rotatingdrum to stationary speaker- no ramp up/down time at all. Is this why a lot of the Hammondfolks don'tcare forthem??? </P>


-jim</P>

[picothinker]

Re: Was Don Leslie ever satisfied?



That link to Don Leslie's home gear was very interesting. There were pics of what looked like solenoids playing tambourines and cymbals behind the walls, and a wall-mounted board with a dozen guitar stompboxes on it. That 137.com guy is a lifelong vacum cleaner collector (?), Theremin player, and he had some other links to a friendship with another lifelong vacum cleaner collector, Stan Kann. He was also an organist at the Fox Theater in St. Louis Missouri for 20 years. As I am a Missouri/USA native, reading further showed some pics of Stan Kann playing one of the largest Wurlitzer organs ever built.</p>

Stan Kann also was on Johnny Carson's Tonight Show (younger readers will know it as "Jay Leno/Conan O'Brien<span class="mw-headline" id="Conan_O.27Brien_.282009.E2.80.93present.29"></span>", older ones as "Steve Allen/Jack Paar") a record 27 times, and on the Mike Douglas show 89 times, all billed as Stan Kann, the Gadget Man. He would mostly show off his collection of vacum cleaners while wearing a suit made of vacum cleaner bags.
</p>

thx-Scott S.
</p>

</p>