m-111 makin funny noises

[Guest]

Hi folks.</P>


First of all, I look forward to being a member here. From what I read so far, you are all a very helpful and informative bunch. </P>


As for me, I am a fairly new owner of a m-111. I got a very good deal on it, and the thing, for the past month, has been playing beautifully for the most part. As far as maintaining it, I am learning as I go, but my original intentions to buy a hammond specifically was because I was fascinated by how they work, I play a bit, and albeit once I heard the sound these things put out, I was hooked (it was like being wrapped in a warm blanket of sound), mymain intention wascuriousityAnyway, I read up on Hammond himself and how he came to the idea of the tonewheel generator, I read up on the basics of how it works, etc, etc. My most recent purchase was some Hammond oil to oil up the 3 points reccommended for oiling. I filled up the cups about 3/4 and about 2/3 on the generator fill cup, as suggested. Now, up to this point this thing sounded , from what I'll assume,great. An occasional crackle and hiss, but for a organ from the 1960's, I was completely impressed.I did my exploring for a while to see what goes where and what does what, and man, these things are a work of art...ANyway, to get back on point, ever since I oiled it (using Hammond oil) every once in a while upon start up, the thing will start making this weird erghhhh kinda noise, as if something is grinding or struggling with the start up motor as it's turning. It mostly does it when you first start it up, but it will do it occasionally in the middle of playing. the only way to fix it is to turn it off and let it come to a complet stop, otherwise it will just go back to grinding againI tried to see if there were any contributing variables (ie a bar open or a tab on) that might cause it) but havent figured out anyhting yet... So, basically, this is the only problem with it. I guess the worst case is that the bearings are going??? When it is working proper, it sounds sweet. but the occasional grind makes me nervous. lol. If you can, maybe give me some info on why its doing this. either way, I wont be hurt by your replies. It is what it is. I paid 50 bucks and the experience has already been priceless. So, if she's on her wait out, I can accept that. That being said, I love to explore, but with timid respect for many unfamiliar parts. If any of you could give me some pointers on cleaning, like if I can use an electric parts/contact cleaner safely and and what should I focus on and stay away from as well. Again, thanks in advance for any help and sorry for the long post. -Cbear</P>

[bluetantra]

Re: m-111 makin funny noises



Hi, Cbear, and welcome to the forum. Your M-111 is a very nice organ - I have a '66 M-143 and a '67 M-103A; they're built like tanks. It sounds as though the start motor at the far right end of the generator (from the back of the organ) isn't fully disengaging from the generator. You need to remove the fiber cover from the generator and locate the start motor. Use your Hammond oil to lubricate and free up the armature/shaft/gear assembly until it disengages freely from the generator by sliding it back and forth. It is supposed to slide through the motor frame and a spring keeps it in its normal position.</P>


Best,</P>


John</P>

[stefanv]

Re: m-111 makin funny noises

Just guessing here, because I haven't had a <u>really</u> close look at the start motor mechanism on my own M-111, but perhaps the start gear isn't retracting properly after the organ has started and you release the start switch? Try taking the cover off the tone generator, and watch what happens during the start-up sequence (the start motor is on the end opposite the run motor).

[jbird604]

Re: m-111 makin funny noises



CBear,</P>


You're probably hearing the occasional bearing squeal, which is not uncommon and was NOT caused by oiling it. On the contrary, it may have been caused by going a long time without oil before you got it.</P>


Since you're inclined to poke around in it, you may be able to see a way to inspect the individual bearing points. It's not easy, and you can't truly see every one of them fully. But if you peel back some of the felt covering the generator you may get a look at the working parts.</P>


At each point where a shaft goes through a steel "wall" or support member, the shaft turns in a bronze bearing or sleeve. Each bearing has a cotton thread leading from the oil trough and it's only by the wicking action of that thread that oil gets from the trough into each bearing. Rather remarkable that it works at all!</P>


There would be no harm in using WD-40 with a long straw to shoot abit into each bearing. You might even get lucky and hit the one that's squealing and then your problem would be solved. It will have a strong smell, though, so don't use any more than necessary. If you areextremely careful, you can even do this while the generator is running. Then you'll know for sure when you hit the one that's squealing.</P>


(I know WD-40 is not an adequate lubricant for a Hammond and you MUST NOT substitute it for the real oil. But it will temporarily quiet a squealing bearing while the real oil is wicking up the thread. I have done this treatment to dozens of Hammonds in 30+ years of servicing, so I'm confident that it does no harm.)</P>


Another worthwhile use for WD-40 is to clean the pins on the vacuum tubes. This simple procedure will sometimes get rid of a lot of noise, hum, distortion, and other problems. Just take each tube out (while cold), squirt on a little WD-40 and pat off the excess with a napkin, then re-insert into the socket.</P>


Good luck.</P>


John</P>
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[TheAdmiral]

Re: m-111 makin funny noises



Welcome! I like your description of "being wrapped in a warm blanket of sound". That's good.
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Hammonds don't usually quit for good, they just go into hibernation. I've seen frozen generators come back to life and all kinds of other miracles happen with these. It' unlikely it will totally die so just hang in there and someone here will have your answer. Grinding is an unusual sound to me, usually squeels mean the generator needs oil but I can only associate grinds with motors or possible the tone generator is still bolted down and not floating as designed. Motors are easily replaced and parts are always on ebay and lots of models interchange parts. That's the good news. The older ones with start/run switches are noisy on starting but after that are OK. Only thing that comes to mind is somehow the start motor is engaging while the generator is running (like when you try to start a car that's already running) (is that the sound?) and the only thing I can think of on that is the start switch is bad and arcing occasionally but that is a really wild guess.
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Wish I could be of more help on this. There are some great trouble shooters on this forum. Next you'll need a Leslie! </p>

PS. Edit- after reading the other answers I think bluetantra has the best solution to start with.
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