Hammond M...

[redoctoberff]

So I've already got an M3, but its in pretty nice shape, and I don't really want to mess with it. However, I have been looking for a spinet in crummy shape that I could gut and build into a chop case so I can leave the other Hammond at home. This was a possible candidate:</P>


http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/msg/1070505677.html</P>


The cabinet lookspretty bad. I understand the gut reaction of most to the idea of chopping an instrument like this--its painful to think about--but in this case it looks like it might be acceptable. The other issue is percussion. I'm looking into adding percussion (beyond the Trek aftermarket stuff) and found this page:</P>


http://www.theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq/files/m3.html</P>


Which seems to lay out pretty clearly how to mod an M-2. Does anyone know if this would apply to the M spinet as well? I'm also looking at an M3 amp and percussion switches on ebay, and plan to ask the seller if he has the matching transformer (which might be hopeless, this guy doesn't seem to know a lot.) </P>


Thoughts? Is it worth it?</P>

[Brendon Wright]

Re: Hammond M...



How can an M which is labelled FREE not be worth it?</P>


Do you have to drive far to save this one from the dump?</P>
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[Hammond101]

Re: Hammond M...



Here my 2C. By the time you get the M (yes, I believe the same mods can be made) haul it home, buy an amp, matching trannyand switchs then put it all together whoo. You could pick up a working M3 for $100 or less.</P>


As far as the chop goes that is a personal decission. My personal choice would be to use an M3 with a crappy cabinet. If you go through the trouble of doing this, I would use an AO-28 preamp from an A100, B/C/RT3 model. You most likely don't want the power section anyway in an M3 AO-29 pre/power/percussion amplifier.</P>


H101</P>

[TheAdmiral]

Re: Hammond M...



Go rescue it! The fun and feeling of accomplishment would be worth it. Normally I would say OK to chop as I have one, but..........this one has the RARE FLUTED legs. You don't see those very often. The cabinet can always be refinished as it's just furniture. Instead of chopping you can take out the guts and build your own cabinet for it (someone else on the forum is doing that now. He can give you advice), then have the original refinished and sold or eventually put the chop back in it. The end blocks with water stains can be had on ebay and the left one is where the percussion tabs go anyway. I have a fluted model and they're classy.
</p>

I think you're on the right track to converting it. I'd stick with your plan. The AO-28 amp can cost from $175-$300. while the AO-29 can be had for less than $75. most of the time. Matching transformers are on ebay all the time as well as other parts. All of the older models can be converted. I got a matching transformer just by asking as most sellers overlook them, so go ahead. Just describe it to him as the "big round silver thing at the upper right" (not the one attached to a drawbar).
</p>

[johnny b3]

Re: Hammond M...



True. Wasn't the M only made for 2 months before the introduction of vibrato? </p>

I'd say refinish this cab and build a different enclosure if you want to chop. Just be aware that a chopped organ is still very heavy and cumbersome. </p>

[redoctoberff]

Re: Hammond M...



Okay, cool. Yeah, I probably misspoke when I said "chop," I'm really more interested in building it into a separate case, as I think Farndurk was talking about on here...plywood, tolex, aluminum edges, the whole bit. My first attempt at getting a Hammond from craigslist was a custom chopped M3 built into one of those cases...for $100. It wasn't in great shape, but I'm still kicking myself over missingit.</P>


I'll probably save the cabinet, but I don't know that I'll be able to do much with it. Refinishing would be a cool project, but then I'd need parts to put back in it, and I care more about having the smaller organ at the moment. I know its still going to be heavy, but I want something I can haul around without worrying about damaging the finish, and with handles/locking top if possible. (The last thing I want to do is cut holes for handles in the sides of my existing M3.)</P>


Incidentally, this one isn't too far from where I got myM3, and the drive wasn't that bad. I'm just concerned about the expenses adding up to the point where its not worth it...but it sounds like a fun project. I was thinking about asking the seller to include the matching transformer--he said he hadmore parts and just to ask--so I'll get on that. Yeah, it'd probably be easier to gut an M3, butI have yet to see one inbad shape, they all seem pretty nice over here and Ijust couldn't bring myself to take one of those apart.</P>
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[redoctoberff]

Re: Hammond M...

Also: What would the seller have to do to get ahold of the matching transformer (remove it from the guts)? What parts need to be intact? I want to make this as easy for the guy as possible...

[TheAdmiral]

Re: Hammond M...

There are only two screws holding it on but there are two large bundles of wires going in. It would be best if he will leave them as long as possible. Best to unsolder them but cut them would be quicker. Just keep them long as possible.

[redoctoberff]

Re: Hammond M...



An update:</P>


The M is all but mine now--except logistics are turning out to be the biggest problem. Our '97 Jeep Grand Cherokee is nearing the end of its life (several transmission rebuilds, none of which were done very well) and its not likely it'll make it out to Port Townsend...got to find someone with a truck. Anyway:</P>


I just contacted an ebay seller about the amp and matching transformer for a parted-out L-100, then realized it didn't have the AO-29--and just discovered that the L actually has three amps, the power/reverb, percussion and vibrato. So I probably don't want to try to go for these, as I'm sure an AO-29 would be cheaper than trying to win all three in separate auctions. But will the matching transformer work for an M, with the AO-29? How exactly doesthe matching transformerwork?</P>

[Brendon Wright]

Re: Hammond M...



A while ago I was in correspondence with Kon Zissis about my Solid State T-series. He was recommending putting in a matching transformer instead of the manual buss preamps. He didn't tell me how it worked, but he described the results:</P>


Actually, I'm mistaken, he DID describe SOME of the working in another email. Here's both of them:</P>


PART ONE&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</P>


Hi Brendon.

What is the link or the item number of the matching transformer on ebay?

If the drawbar matching transformer is for the console organs built
after 1949 or the M2 , M3 and the M100 series spinet organs then there
are two transformers inside the pot that contains the transformers.
One transformer is for the upper manual and the other transformer is
for the lower manual and the pedals.

The primary winding of the each of the two drawbar matching transformers
have eight taps on them and the colour coded wires from these eight taps
go on to the drawbar busbars in the drawbar assemble and these eight
taps are the eight different intensity levels available with the
drawbars.

The secondary windings of the two transformers are sent either to the
non vibrato channel or on to the vibrato channel via the selector
switches on the organ.

This simple set up works well on most of the console and the spinet
organs but with the T-series organs and the R-100 series console organs
Hammond decided to replace the simple drawbar matching transformer with
individual solid state drawbar preamps for each of the drawbars and
this excessively complex circuitry does not sound as good as the much
simpler set up of the drawbar matching transformer.

With the T-series organs the drawbars are basically wired as volume
controls for each of the drawbar solid state preamps so therefore you
will need to remove the individual drawbar preamps and then rewire the
eight taps of the primary winding of the drawbar matching transformers
on to the drawbars of the T series organ .

You will then need to do some rewiring in order to send the secondary
(output) winding of the upper manual transformer on to the vibrato off /
on switch for the upper manual and the secondary (output) winding of
the lower manual transformer on to the vibrato off / on switch for the
lower manual.

I have not yet experimented with this so therefore I am not sure about
the specific rewiring that will need to be done.

All the best.
Kon.</P>


<U>PART TWO: THE SAGA CONTINUES&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</U></P>


Hi Brendon.
&gt;In which ways does the transformer sound better than the boards?
&gt;I'm curious.

When I placed the 1963 L-102 next to each other and I then played them
both at the same volume level with the same drawbar settings , I
noticed that the L-103 had a nicer warmer sound whilst the XTP sounded a
little more sterile and hollow compared to the L-103.
At first I thought that the reason for this was because the L-103 has a
valve preamp and power amplifier and better sounding speakers but then
I took a direct tap from the output of the drawbar matching transformer
of my 1963 L102 organ and I fed that signal somewhere into the XTP
solid state preamp whereby the signal from the L102 drawbar matching
transformer was at a similar level to the drawbars of the XTP so that I
could do a more accurate A/B listening test with both organs with the
same drawbar settings and I would then hear what the L-103 signal sounds
like through the solid state XTP preamp and power amplifier .

Interestingly enough the signal coming directly from the L-103 drawbar
matching transformer into the XTP solid state circuitry still had the
nicer warmer and fatter tone whilst he sound from the XTP drawbars had
the more sterile hollow sound. As well as that , the L-`103 signal had
the loudness robbing effect as I pulled out more drawbars so that there
was a natural slight compression so that there is not as much volume
level variation between one drawbar pulled out on it's own as compared
to the volume level when all the drawbars are pulled out.

The XTP drawbars did not have the loudness robbing effect so therefore a
single drawbar pulled out sounded quieter but the volume level was
louder when all the drawbars were pulled out.
The loudness robbing effect caused by the extremely low impedance
circuit of the primary winding of the drawbar matching transformer
sounded better to my ears.
All the best.
Kon
</P>


So it sounds like a bit of compression is one of the benefits.....</P>


Good luck!</P>


-Brendon</P>

[TheAdmiral]

Re: Hammond M...

You'll probably have to stick with the M100 series for M3 parts. Not sure about the matching transformer from the L as that's a different animal. Try matching the part numbers. If they match it should work. When I get home I'll try to remember to look up the part number for you.

[Guest]

Re: Hammond M...



Question on the matching transformer....</P>


Is the the transformer used to bring the signal from the multiple drawbars to the single preamp input?</P>

[TheAdmiral]

Re: Hammond M...

Through the switches, yes. I checked my spare matching transformer and was surprised there was no Hammond AO number on it. Just the letter "C".

[redoctoberff]

Re: Hammond M...



Finally got the M.</P>


The cabinet isn't actually in as bad of condition as I'd thought, though there is water damage and missing veneer as expected (I'll post a photo later).I'm still going to build the custom case, but I think I'll preserve the cabinet, and maybe refinish it if I ever decide to put the guts back in.</P>


I contacted a seller a while ago about percussion switches and the matching transformer from an M3--$30 shipped. Seems like a fair deal. The AO-29 is going to be more difficult--he has one untested, but I'm not sure I wanted to go that route ($75 shipped). Others run about $100 shipped.</P>


I was wondering, with a new matching transformer, does this mean I could add selective vibrato to the chop? I'm not going to use the bass pedals I don'tthink, so I could maybe adjust the vibrato on/off and the pedal attack to switch vibratofor the manuals. I don't know if that's possible/how much circuitry would be involved though...</P>
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[redoctoberff]

Re: Hammond M...



Here are the photos:</P>


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And without flash...</P>
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</P>


Looks like the onlyactual missing veneer is on the front, off the cheek blocks. The rest (on the sides), which looked likeworn off veneer, is actually justfaded.</P>


TG looks okay...</P>
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</P>


I'm not sure what this is--something to do with vibrato?--it's in a different case than the one on my M3. It looks metal but is actually silver-painted wood.</P>


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