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Difference between Roland AT90s and AT90sl?

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    #16
    Originally posted by andyg View Post
    If you can find a 90SL, factory or dealer fitted upgrade, at a good price, then go for it! The only thing you might want to do at some point is change the floppy for a USB stick emulator. Plug and play job.
    Hi Andy,

    Thanks for the reply. I might come around to your point of view if the wait gets too long and the choice just isn't there. In the meantime, I'm cussing all three of my Technics organs because all three have the exact same problems, so I know it's a function of age and not use. All three developed the same problem within a year of each other!

    But you seem to be saying the only way to know the difference between a 2001 SL-90S with an L-upgrade vs a 2004 AT-90SL is if a fellow knows the sequence of serial numbers. I was hoping for something more obvious than that ... like a medium sized plaque on the back that says, "This isn't the one you want."

    But to your point, do you have an opinion of what constitutes a fair price these days on an AT-90SL? Too few on the market to really tell. I see one dreamer on eBay selling his for $7500 USD ... another for $1800 (too far away, sadly) ... and a local story (I know the dealer) of one fellow who dropped his off at an organ store to get rid of it, and the store sold it for $300. (Couldn't you just barf?)

    I'm thinking with a bit of waiting (six months or so) and the willingness to drive a stretch ... maybe $800 to 1,000 ... ?

    [Edit: I just now thought to google past transactions for Ateliers. Found this: Roland Atelier AT-900 Platinum ... 90 minutes from my house ... $1,250. Sold six months ago with only one bid! ........ Is it true lightning only strikes in the same place once?]

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-AT-90...-/142322031759

    Comment


      #17
      It struck twice, there was an AT900P that sold for peanuts in the last week or so.

      There's apparently a date code embedded in the serial number. Here's an extract from a thread a couple of years ago.

      Roland have a complex s/n system but the initial letter and the last four numbers indicate the number of units produced of a particular model. Z indicates 0 and A to Y are 1 to 25. The serial number ZS60168 means it is the 168th AT90 SL off the production line since it was introduced. S was the code for March-Dec 2004 and 6 was the month of September that year!!

      I can't imagine there are any Ateliers that don't start with Z at the beginning of the serial number!
      It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

      New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

      Current organ: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition
      Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball something-or-other.
      Retired Leslies, 147, 145, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by andyg View Post
        It struck twice, there was an AT900P that sold for peanuts in the last week or so.

        There's apparently a date code embedded in the serial number. Here's an extract from a thread a couple of years ago.

        Roland have a complex s/n system but the initial letter and the last four numbers indicate the number of units produced of a particular model. Z indicates 0 and A to Y are 1 to 25. The serial number ZS60168 means it is the 168th AT90 SL off the production line since it was introduced. S was the code for March-Dec 2004 and 6 was the month of September that year!!

        I can't imagine there are any Ateliers that don't start with Z at the beginning of the serial number!
        Very good to know, Andy. You're always a fountain of knowledge. I'm going to keep that information handy as I continue searching. I still maintain that an Atelier three years younger is worth searching a little harder for.

        Seems funny to say this now that I have two anecdotes about AT-900P's selling for peanuts, but in fact ... of course ... I'm only "settling" for wanting a 90SL. If lightning was kind, of course I would prefer a 900p.

        Strange ... so far, in my limited search ... I've only seen a 900P go for peanuts - or not be available at all.

        I have yet to see a "fairly" priced one, whatever that happens to be.

        Maybe I need to read me one 'o them "law of attraction" books and summon a mint AT-900P from wherever these things come from.


        By the way, where DO good used AT-900P's come from? All I know is Craigslist (which seems mostly useless for better organs) and eBay (which only has them from time to time).

        Any suggestions where else to go stand in line?

        __________________________________________________ ___


        [EDIT] Can I ask you another question, Andy? (Or anyone with experience with Ateliers) ... since you're knowledgeable about exactly the organs I'm looking at ... I have on my short list right now the Atelier 90SL, 900, 900C, and 900P if the fates allow. If the price is low enough, I could be persuaded to take home an 80SL or 800 as I'm not doing much yet beyond simple pedal-chord-pedal-chord for bass. Short pedals would be fine until the big day when the ultimate organ comes along.

        The sound I'm after though is really not so much Hammond type organ. I'm much more enamored with Klaus Wunderlich's Wersi sound. (Although living in California makes it more practical to aspire to a Roland.)

        All these better Ateliers ... they are all equally well supplied with that Klaus/Wersi sound aren't they? I've seen pictures of the 350C, the "touring combo" ... I guess that's meant to be a Hammond clone of sorts - so I could see where that might not feature Klaus/Wersi sounds. But the home-Ateliers ... the 90SL, the 900, the 900C, the 80SL, the 800 ... I can count on them all having that European pop organ sound, right? I'd hate to do all the work of finally finding one, plunk down the bucks, only to bring it home and find it doesn't do what I'm expecting it to!

        And I see the term "virtual tonewheel organ" all over the place, obviously referring to a Hammond sound. I don't know how Roland would refer to a "Wersi" sound in their promos, other than many "European pop organ" - which I don't find anywhere.

        I've already got a real Hammond and a Leslie. Getting a Hammond sound is not a huge priority. Getting a killer Wersi sound with Klaus-like pop accompaniments and a great speaker system is what I'm after.

        SL's and better Ateliers do all have that, don't they?
        Last edited by Neumie; 09-01-2017, 04:04 PM.

        Comment


          #19
          If you're after Wersi sounds, the Atelier will disappoint, as it doesn't really have any. Not what they were thinking of. Lowrey and Hammond are the two electronic organ variants, with the extra drawbar section being another Hammond clone. Might be a pop organ or two floating around in 'Others', but certainly not a Klaus sound.

          Sounds like you need a Wersi!
          It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

          New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

          Current organ: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition
          Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball something-or-other.
          Retired Leslies, 147, 145, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.

          Comment


            #20
            Andy,

            I am intimately familiar with the sound of a Hammond, and I know the sound of a Wersi from many Klaus albums, but I have no idea what a Lowrey organ sound is. I just now YouTube'd "Lowrey Organ" and got such a hodgepodge of results ... demos, variations, way too many songs that are just piano/strings samples ... that I have no idea which of these is what pop organ fans would call a Lowrey sound.

            If it's not asking too much, (and it probably is), can you please dial me in to a video that showcases what is commonly understood as a typical representative Lowrey sound?

            -N

            Comment


              #21
              No problem. We have to make a distinction between old school Lowrey and the modern ones. The change came around 1973/4 when Lowrey started adding strings and preset sounds.

              Roland's Lowrey sounds are just flute combinations and they sound a bit like the flutes do on this LP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcmUTDrjR4g My old mate Jerry Allen getting the best out of a late 60s Holiday model.
              It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

              New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

              Current organ: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition
              Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball something-or-other.
              Retired Leslies, 147, 145, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.

              Comment


                #22
                Very cool. Thank you for posting this for me, Andy. I can discern enough when I hear it to know that's not a Wersi. A few more albums like this one and I should be able to recognize the sound. So now I know to YouTube pre-1973 Lowrey albums.

                I do enjoy that sound, but I don't see ever owning either a Wersi or a Lowrey, especially older ones. I bought two Technics organs a few years back, a GA1 and an FA1, both from roughly the same vintage. And wouldn't you know it ... both of them have the exact same serious problems today, which I suspect has more to do with the age of the construction materials and not overuse. The tempo wheels are both shot and the reverbs on both make static.

                As a result, today I'm gun-shy about organs more than a few years old, or organs that are uncommon in a given marketplace. (Compare the number of Wersi's for sale on eBay-Germany vs eBay-US. Even harder, here in California.) I really don't want to be the only guy on the west coast with a certain organ when the time comes for repairs. I can picture our local repair tech shaking his head and asking what a Wersi is.)

                I also bought a screamin' expensive digital Hammond B3-P and after only a dozen or so years old, it required major service that cost a fortune. To boot, the most reputable guy to repair them was half-way across the US. I was so fortunate that a local organ fan flies him out every few years to service his many instruments and he let me piggy-back my repairs on the work he was having done.

                Hence, my focus on buying an Atelier for my next instrument. Whether it makes Wersi sounds or not, repairs on the latest ones should not be that huge an issue for several years yet.

                In fact, I've recently told the four ex-Roland dealers I'm in touch with (who still circulate among Atelier owners) that, at my amateurish level of playing, I would most likely never notice the difference between an AT900 Platinum vs an AT900 vs an AT90SL ... but that I would still happily pay more for the 900 Platinum just because it's five years younger and should most likely last that many years longer than any other organ in the lineup before needing repairs.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by andyg View Post
                  Sounds like you need a Wersi!
                  Hasn't he suffered enough?

                  Comment


                    #24
                    i'm going to look at a AT90S Luxury tomorrow. They told me there is on owners manual with it but not floppies. Should there be floppies for additional sounds and rythems or are they already in the organ?

                    Comment


                      #25
                      The "L" upgrade will be built in via daughter boards. There were additional floppies to add more styles to a user storage area.
                      Mine came with a defective daughter board and was loaded with "S" firmware. I was able to obtain the board and "L American Classic" firmware from Roland.
                      td

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Thanks for the reply. This organ was donated to a Catholic Charity and none of the volunteer staff have any information about it's history Do you know how difficult it will be to acquire the additional style floppies?

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Probably difficult, but I really would not worry. I remember when one of my students had the upgrade from S to SL done. He never used any of the new styles - just not his 'thing'! I never used them either. Far more interested in the many extra sounds that were added, plus the digital drawbar system.

                          There are very few on-line groups dedicated to Roland Atelier, something that's always surprised me, and one or two charge subscriptions. Yikes! There is some support here, and I suppose they'd class me as one of the Atelier 'experts'. If you've got some questions, feel free to ask away.
                          It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

                          New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

                          Current organ: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition
                          Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball something-or-other.
                          Retired Leslies, 147, 145, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Thanks for you reply and the offer of assistance. I made the 4 hour drive from Gainesville, Florida to Fort Myers, Florida yesterday to inspect the organ. It is pristine and sounds wonderful. I looks and feels like it just came off the showroom floor. I took some of my 25 year old "You Are A Star" midi files with me and they never sounded better. Unfortunately, there were no style discs. There were 3 AT90sL's available in Florida on craigslist priced at $3900, $2000 and this one at $1500. I explained the 8 or 9 hour round trip delivery and that 2 movers quoted me $700 and $950. The manager said she would work with me on the price and I ended up paying $800 for the instrument. I'm very pleased with my deal. Now all that's left to do is find someone who want my SX-EA5 to make room for this beauty and get it home.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              I have several style disk files I can send you if you PM me an email address.
                              2 American Classic for the Sl and some S diaks.
                              td

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Could you copy me with that email and the disk copies please, td. It's a regularly asked question over here as S and SL models are sold and disks go missing etc.
                                It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

                                New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

                                Current organ: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition
                                Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball something-or-other.
                                Retired Leslies, 147, 145, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.

                                Comment

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