Learning again - have Technics PCM Sound...methods or equipment?

[nadsab]

Greetings!

I used to play organ and piano a bit when I was a kid, and want to start teaching myself again. I am looking for a way or method to modernize my learning with what I have... so here is my equipment…

I have a Technics PCM Sound, model number SX-EX35 in perfect working condition. Inherited it from my mom.

Anyone have any suggestions on if, and how I could rig this up with modern equipment, or at least use some sort of PC or internet set up for learning/lessons? I am tech and net savvy…
have laptop, PC's, pad pc...

Thanks for any advice!

[andyg]

There are a few on-line and PC-based apps that will try to teach you piano, but I'm not aware of any that would teach you how to play home organ, which is a whole different ball game. We discussed a couple of the apps a while back thinking about their suitability for more classical organ learning. Personally I've been disappointed when I've looked at them as the 'feedback' given has been inaccurate or insufficient.

Back to home organ, there are no such apps, so the best advice I can give you is to invest in a set (new or used) of The Complete Organ Player, by Kenneth Baker. 7 books in the series and 2 supplements for more advanced left hand and foot work. If you follow through the course books, they do really work.

I'd be interested if anyone came up with an app that taught home organ, but I'd still be wary of it. As it is, the home organ market is tiny and there's no real market for such an app.

You will of course be able to find on line resources for music theory, scales etc, my own website has some of this.

Oh, the organ will not be able to communicate with the net, but would be able to communicate with a computer via a MIDI to USB adaptor. But the only apps that it would work with would be 1) notation apps for producing printed music 2) a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) that would let you record and play back (the organ can do that itself) and 3) virtual instruments - you could 'drive' a virtual Hammond, theatre organ or classical organ from the Technics.

But you'd need to play first, so we come back to those books!

[nadsab]

Oops! Thanks Andyg - sorry I made a mistake. The model number of my organ is the Technics SX-FN3-M. Not the SX-EX35 which my mom traded in to get the newer model.

Does that make a difference to my original question?

[andyg]

No. It just means that you have a much better organ to play! :)

[nadsab]

Thanks Andyg,

I guess my next question for now is, I realize this organ is about 25 years old. I am wondering if it does end up needing repair at some point, are parts still available for this model?

[andyg]

It may be older than that, I have the Technics time line at home, so I'll check later. I think I can remember teaching someone on a GN9 back in the late 1980s, so perhaps 30 years +.

Parts are scarce, but it's possible that Organ Service Corporation in the USA and W D Greenhill in the UK may have some.

[Larrytow]

Back around 2012 I acquired an SX-FN3 from a church. To my recollection it is a very nice console organ, and had a real nice audio system in it too. Also, it had MIDI In, Out, and Through, so it can be a great MIDI controller for you. It also has lots of Ins and Outs for audio, so running other things though the organ audio is easy.

The only thing that needed to be fixed when I got it was the photocell in the Expression pedal.

I ended up selling it after I repaired it, but not because it was a bad sounding instrument. In fact it is a nice sounding organ, and the guy who came to get it really knew the Technics system, and made beautiful music with it. So I would say that you have a very good organ to (re)start learning on.

[nadsab]

Thanks so much andyg and Larrytow. I have spent a few days going through the manual, it's amazing how much more this thing can do compared to what I grew up with – a Lowery and a Hammond B-3 from the early to mid 1970's.

I know it sounds silly but I am kind of sentimental about it since it was my moms last organ LOL!

I am amazed my mom bought this in her 70's with all the bells and whistles on it.

I was wondering - I cannot find anything on this organ - other than someone in Great Britain who claimed that only 16 were imported into England. Is this organ that rare? I had read somewhere that it was their top of the line is that correct?

Was just curious if a service manual is even available – let alone parts.

I am going to play it and learn on it until it dies. Hope it lasts a while.

I did contact a local (Michigan USA) and very well-known and experienced organ service person. He claimed that parts for this unit are extremely rare and even if I can find parts, I will pay a small fortune to obtain them. However, I also read another post from a gentleman in England who claims that these organs are repairable and does service Technics. The former gentleman suggested when ready I buy a rebuilt B-3 or a brand-new Yamaha. I knew even as a kid, that the B-3 was the way to go since they had been made for so many years, simple parts, still available. That sound is classic.

I will treat the Technics with kid gloves...have not even tried the sequencer yet.

One would think that with all the modern technology and 3d printers and such, some firm in Japan would be willing to make aftermarket parts for equipment such as this that is worth preserving.

[andyg]

Just checked the Technics timeline - the FN3 dates from 1991.

It was the top of the line at the time, being the console version of the spinet GN9. There was an ultra-rare white 'stage' version, one's been on offer in Germany for a few months with no takers yet - seller wants silly money for it. It would not surprise me that only 16 were imported into the UK. Consoles were slower sellers in the UK, we have smaller houses than in the USA, for example.

As I said, W D Greenhill may have some spares. They bought up the stock from Panasonic UK when Panasonic pulled out of the music business. They might also have a service manual, email them and ask! Or you could ask on the forum, we have a special section for such requests. In the USA, I have no idea who has stocks. Finding a repair guy who actually knows how to service them (and isn't just a 'board swapper or a Hammond tonewheel-only guy) is tricky these days. Mitatechs.org will help.

Why would you want to buy a rebuilt B-3 or a new Yamaha when you are 'ready'? Odd advice. Although it is 'classic', a B-3 will only ever make B-3 sounds and you'll have much more fun with the FN3! The only new Yamahas are the D-Deck and the Stagea, which you'd have to personally import via Tarotrade in Australia, as Yamaha don't officially export them.

There's no way to reproduce the custom boards and ICs in the organ. Once they're all gone, that's it.

[ToH]

Hello!

I did the same thing, played as kid, then not for many years and started again on a Yamaha HS-8 (which I desperately want to change to something else and a little bit newer). First mainly fake books, just hold down a chord and and play one finger melody, not really any structured practise for a long time. Then started with Complete Organ Player from book 2. I bought all book but book 1. I also have my course books from a kid, Palmer-Hughes Spinet Organ Course book 1 to 8, book 8 was untouched and never played.
I saw Andy reccomend the COP left hand and toe supplement so started to look but they seemed to be hard to find but then I recently found a used book store
https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/S...n+Player&sts=t
were they could be found. They are very cheap but the shipment is actually many times more expensive than the books. I ordered a couple of the other COP books but not sure if I can recommend those. They are of varying difficulty but seems to be mostly targeting level of book 1 to 3. But actually some books have a list on the backside where it's saying what level of course book they are. For some book they say course book 1 to 3 and for some others course book 1 to 7 (which I would guess would better choices if getting any). I recieved my shipment of these book just about 2 weeks ago.
I'm now in middle book 4 of COP and starting left and toe supplement.

What I like with COP is they have drum and tempo suggestions and there are a big varity and I think much more rythm variations for left hand and foot than Palmer but some arrangements I still like in Palmer.
What I don't like with COP is many very strange chords. If I hadn't played from other book before I wouldn't have understood that they are strange. Basically there are only 4 notes chords and a lot of 6 and m7 chords. I can not understand this. When there is a C6 I play C and a Cm7 I play Cm. But that mean that if it in some case really should have been a 4-note C6 then I miss that. The biggest problem is that it impossible to identify the 4 notes from staff, decide which note should be omitted, in real time, and play the correct chord so I end up looking at the chord symbol instead. Palmer series have much better chords and you can read them from staff.
When going with COP I seriously recommed to get a couple of other books too that has proper chords where it's possibe to learn and read the chord from the staff.

I also bought a couple of books from Hal Leonard. I think they are quite good even though to me quite difficult. What I think is good is that there are are often other things than just a chord in left hand which to me is good practice.
I also bought the London College Electronic Organ Handbook, all four books from grade 1 to 8, and already started to work with Grade 1 (togheter with COP), that to med started very easy (as long as there are not other things going on that chords in left hand) but I actually still like the small pieces from the beginning. These are as they say handbooks so there are a lot of things except pieces to play. There are good hint on things to plactice than just playing
Then I also practising a bit from 4 note hymn book since I like hymns. I haven't yet been albe to do this with pedals but mostly just play on lower manual 2 notes left hand and 2 notes right hand. I not sure how these hymns should be played in a "correct way" (I also can not simply understand how it can even be possible to sight read this as I guess organist have to do).

[seamaster]

If it says Cm7, you should play Cm7.

It’s only the 6th chords we recommend substituting.

[andyg]

Yes, remove the 6ths throughout, but keep all the other four note chords like 7ths, minor 7ths and major 7ths. When it comes to diminisheds, be aware that there should be a difference between a 3 note diminished chord and a 4 note diminished 7th chord. Many books don't make that distinction.

And remember too that all the chords in these books will double the pedal note in the chord, so feel free to omit it. And while you're at it you'll often find that the melody note duplicates one of the notes in the chord, so that might go two, leaving you with just two left hand notes. A simpler, cleaner sounds, but you do have to think about what you're doing on a note by note, chord by chord basis. It's part of a technique I used to call 'De-Bakerising', and I used to hold regular teach-ins, showing how people how to take a simple Baker arrangement and rework it into something rather more interesting.

If you're reading the notes in the bass clef rather than using the chord symbols, then the Left Hand and Toe supplements are an absolute must.

And always remember that the courses are only a means to an an end. The idea is not just to learn the tunes in the books - which is sadly what a lot of people do and no more - but to learn the techniques and apply them to everything. You learn the art of arranging, sometimes you do it all in your head (and as an aside, I'll say that I woke early this morning with sun streaming through the windows and a hungry cat jumping on the bed. After feeding the said moggy, I couldn't get back to sleep so lay in bed mentally arranging a medley of pieces for theatre organ. I'll sit down and play it later!) and sometimes you'll write it out - another skill to learn!

[ToH]

If it says Cm7, you should play Cm7.

It’s only the 6th chords we recommend substituting.

Thanks, good to know

[ToH]

Yes, remove the 6ths throughout, but keep all the other four note chords like 7ths, minor 7ths and major 7ths. When it comes to diminisheds, be aware that there should be a difference between a 3 note diminished chord and a 4 note diminished 7th chord. Many books don't make that distinction.

And remember too that all the chords in these books will double the pedal note in the chord, so feel free to omit it. And while you're at it you'll often find that the melody note duplicates one of the notes in the chord, so that might go two, leaving you with just two left hand notes. A simpler, cleaner sounds, but you do have to think about what you're doing on a note by note, chord by chord basis. It's part of a technique I used to call 'De-Bakerising', and I used to hold regular teach-ins, showing how people how to take a simple Baker arrangement and rework it into something rather more interesting.

Thats sounds interesting but really really difficult. Might there be any sheet music scanning software that converts to editable sheet music so it's possible to try a re-arrangemet by printing it out?

I think it would be much better to learn with a teacher that can give directions especially beyond just learning the songs in the books.
Unfortuately it's no longer possible.

[nadsab]

Wow this is a really interesting discussion!

I was able to find and order the Complete Organ player -books 1 - 5, found some good prices on used books.

Given the discussion about more than one set of books, how do you folks feel about any of the Alfred learning books for piano, as a supplement? I grew up with both piano and organs in the house and sometimes we used music books interchangeably.