Unlocking the Yamaha E70

[Guest]

http://www.brassee.com/ ).

https://sites.google.com/site/yamahacsy2synth/

[ Meanwhile, Marc has seen opportunities to pursue his ideals of an expressive synth setup based on more 'modern' digital hardware rather than reinvent the 'analog synth' wheel. It's also a bit cheaper/practical and less intensive on the electronics front. : ) ]

The next stage will be a fully constructed implementation that ties in all the related elements, but that's in a bit of a holding pattern due to priorities and too many expansive ideas on my part versus Marc's more practical approach (i.e. The Frankenstienian 'discovery' that you can piggy-back/stack the synth section from another extracted CSY synth! )

I figured it's worth mentioning now, versus waiting for that day when things finally get to stage of mseven and his related E-series mod/build. Also, it might inspire related ideas, feedback, possibly another thread?

Important Note: If you're considering going beyond the resistor/potentiometer swap, the CSY-2 has an easier layout; everything is on separate boards that breaks-out all the interconnections rather than having the bulk of them as pcb traces on a larger card, as in the CSY-1.

Looks like I just bought myself a half a GX voice.. Thanks for the tip!

Good to see your post Dr Funk

[mseven]

This is all great news and direction, thank you all. M3ME those "Tone Boards" are looking very sweet and are playing a part in layout thoughts now. I did just hear from Mr. CNC that he still hasn't been able to import my files into his AutoCAD program so I just made another go at exporting - hoping for the success there.

The last few work sessions have been directed toward the VCLFO PC Boards. First getting the schematics ready for single sided layout. Looks like there will be two boards, one for the main Druid board and the second board (x2) for the CV controller inputs. Dr. Funk, your interest about easily useable modules has been noted! For sure the VCLFO pcb and parts list should make a nice timesaver. <a href="http://imageshack.us/a/img13/5191/cutterwithstar2.jpg" target="http://imageshack.us/a/img13/5191/cutterwithstar2.jpg"><img src="http://imageshack.us/a/img13/5191/cutterwithstar2.jpg" style="margin-top:20px;margin-left:20px;margin-bottom:10px;width:300px;border:1px solid black;" align=right></A>

Re the PCBs, at the Makerspace here they have a laser cutter. The blue star and oval are my first test pieces. Its been amazing to discover the laser cutter's precision. Apparently it is capable of 1000dpi. Its also a breeze to setup and cut. So this laser cutter will be doing the PCBs, and also solving the Control Panel Labeling by engraving the lettering and lines (to be later filled with white paint) The star is about 1.5 inches tall.

Keyman I agree this is certainly the time to begin thinking of the new CSY-2! - how to modify it and integrate it's features into the setup. Paticularly sweet is the aftertouch! The CSY-2 seems too nice an instrument to extract the synth so it will likely stay in one piece, for now. Plus it seems there's no easy way to mount the solo syth into the E. In any case, I'm looking forward to completely modding the CSY-2 synth!

I must confess that my goal is to get the closest possible to the GX-1 though I suppose that's no suprise. I want to be able to play the first part of Pirates (until Lake stars singing) and maybe some parts of Fanfare with very close sounds... well I've been wanting that for decades now... I notice the E-50 can get closer with the coupling (and still without the SofGX mods), with the huge exception of the solo synth. Well that solution is now coming into focus thanks to the CSY-2 tip.

Looks like a very big amount of work went into the mods on the Google page... thanks for the link. Time to have a listen... Cheers

[Guest]

The CSY-2 is a great choice for added mods, the linked examples are more than proof enough of that. But, don't let my example distract you too much from your original plans. Otherwise, you're welcome to put forward any questions - first suggestion is get a hold of the CSY-2 service manual, or at least review the more readily available service guides for the SY-1 and SY-2, they cover much of the same related theory of operation with obvious exceptions due to the use of epoxy modules vs. discrete for everything but the VCO. The CSY-2 service manual doesn't cover so much in terms of theory...

For now, good luck with the rest!

This is all great news and direction, thank you all. M3ME those "Tone Boards" are looking very sweet and are playing a part in layout thoughts now. I did just hear from Mr. CNC that he still hasn't been able to import my files into his AutoCAD program so I just made another go at exporting - hoping for the success there.

The last few work sessions have been directed toward the VCLFO PC Boards. First getting the schematics ready for single sided layout. Looks like there will be two boards, one for the main Druid board and the second board (x2) for the CV controller inputs. Dr. Funk, your agreement regarding easily useable modules has been noted! For sure the VCLFO pcb and parts list should make a nice LFO package. <a href="http://imageshack.us/a/img13/5191/cutterwithstar2.jpg" target="http://imageshack.us/a/img13/5191/cutterwithstar2.jpg"><img src="http://imageshack.us/a/img13/5191/cutterwithstar2.jpg" style="margin-top:20px;margin-left:20px;margin-bottom:10px;width:300px;border:1px solid black;" align=right></A>

Re the PCBs, at the Makerspace here they have a laser cutter. The blue star and oval are my first test pieces. Its been amazing to discover the laser cutter's precision. Apparently it is capable of 1000dpi. Its also a breeze to setup and cut. So this laser cutter will be doing the PCBs, and also solving the Control Panel Labeling by engraving the lettering and lines (to be later filled with white paint, etc.) The star is about 1.5 inches tall.

Keyman I agree this is certainly the time to begin thinking of the new CSY-2! - how to modify it and integrate it into the setup. Paticularly sweet is the aftertouch! The CSY-2 seems too nice an instrument to extract the synth so it will likely stay in one piece, for now. Plus it seems there's no easy way to mount the solo syth into the E.

I must confess that my goal is to get the closest possible to the GX-1 though I suppose that's no suprise. I want to be able to play the first part of Pirates (until Lake stars singing) and maybe some parts of Fanfare with very close sounds... well I've been wanting that for decades now... I notice the E-50 can get pretty close in some ways - even as it is without the SofGX mods, with the huge exception of the solo synth. Well that solution is now coming into focus thanks to the CSY-2 tip.

Looking forward to modding the CSY-2 synth as well of course.

Looks like a very big amount of work went into the mods on the Google page... thanks for the link. Time to have a listen... Cheers

[mseven]

Great Demos Keyman

Too bad Marc jumped ship :)

[Guest]

Thanks, most are just straight sound-effects, others are semi-musical to musical, it's mostly raw/unedited/repetitive capture the related sounds. The paraphonic and modulation combinations are pretty nice, though you may have to wade through a few noisy bits as it's only 64 bit mp3.

Though the electronics could be considered relatively simple, there's a lot more complexity having to translate it into permanent hardware and it's not a trivial project as it entails more technical detail than a straight E-70 resistor/potentiometer mod. Much easier to jumper/move wires around a breadboard (that was only one of two) versus having umpteen switches and opamp amplification/voltage shift/invert blocks etc. I plan on using the multi-pole ganged switches from printer/serial switch boxes to make config changes vs. patchbay or going the hybrid digital/analog route.

Marc didn't jump ship, he started tabulating related component costs, build complexity, time & effort and potential for frustration etc. as he's had related experiences with his Poly-Cheesy as well as the E-70. He realized his ultimate goal of sound qualities and expression vs. control would be better achieved with his current project.

He's got more than enough gear and experience to know what's best, otherwise he has been gracious enough to provide his enthusiasm, feedback and support - he has helped many others with his tutorial guide, direct guidance and videos plus he's got more idea's for demo's etc. on go... :)

Great Demos Keyman

Too bad Marc jumped ship :)

[mseven]

At this point, are you leaning toward the hybrid method? I know you know the benefits; I like the hybrid option because I know in some cases I'll need the flexibilty to rewire without actually rewiring. I think a small patchbay will be the most efficient for a couple of SoGX LFO functions.

Yes that's an amazing collection of breadboarding! It certainly is a challenge to think of making that into a single PCB. I just got a shipment in from China - $24 bucks or so without any shipping charges, and it included 5x7cm protoboards, ten of them, for under $2. I'm thinking it might be ok to do some small modules on these, in particular, the CV controllers for the LFOs. That's a small circuit, then those can plug onto the LFO main board.

Interesting thought about using switches from printer boxes. I could have used that instead of buying a 28 (I think) position, 4 gang rotary switch waay back for a tube preamp. It was pricey but I wanted a resistor matrix volume control back then instead of a potentiometer for noise reasons.

Though the electronics could be considered relatively simple, there's a lot more complexity having to translate it into permanent hardware and it's not a trivial project as it entails more technical detail than a straight E-70 resistor/potentiometer mod. Much easier to jumper/move wires around a breadboard (that was only one of two) versus having umpteen switches and opamp amplification/voltage shift/invert blocks etc. I plan on using the multi-pole ganged switches from printer/serial switch boxes to make config changes vs. patchbay or going the hybrid digital/analog route.

I know Marc didn't jump ship :) I was just try to poke him into hearing what he's up to!

[Guest]

There's always the option to create the patch-points, but that reminds me too much of my high-school project of an 8080A computer built on those same style of breadboards - you had to enter in all binary code by hand via little dip switches before it would do anything. Otherwise, I like the idea of the ARP 2600 where you had the default connections and slide switches to simulate jumper wires. Maybe you're thinking of the Korg MS-20? (coming back soon to a music shop near you). From what I recall, Marc doesn't have any modular gear, it's all switches or fixed.

I'm assuming those switches are good enough for audio, though they're for digital signals where the S/N ratio is not important. The stepped volume approach is certainly high tech, back 'then' these boxes would have been expensive, nowadays they are considered obsolete. In this case, you could use the switch to place filters in parallel or series, same with VCO's etc. : )

The design I want to make is not complex on the module's side, it's the modulation and interconnection options - Marc recommended the two Ring Modulation sections to simulate stereo from a single source. This is all before I came along the idea of stacking two CSY-2 sections. It's a nice idea, but let me know if you think there's a better way to do this?



The little boards should be useful, I got the double sized equivalent to the standard GSC style protoblock with multiple power rails.

http://www.veroboard.com/double-prot...5mm-p-219.html

I like what that fellow has done with the PIC's, should be some nice options for you.

No doubt Marc is flexing his fingers in preparation of his next magical feat of music... ur... feat of magical music? : )

[mseven]

Nice! Lots to think about there....

=========

For now I just want to tell M3me someone has made somewhat of a GX-1 VST.

Haven't had a close look yet but its here: http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54945

[Guest]

Very nice VST... the synth functionality of the GX-1 is pretty impressive.

In case anyone wants to try to wrap their heads around what the GX-1 is capable of...

http://www.synthfool.com/docs/Yamaha...s%20Manual.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_GX-1

An entire album was done with the GX-1 by Rick van der Linden, here's a track someone posted... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFygy1DtCSo

I think Marc had a similar goal, to modify the CSY synth to provide the same/similar functionality as that found in the GX-1 Solo Synth (or as close to it as possible). The modules and modulations I've created are pretty much fulfilling that goal (S&H, Ring Modulation, rhythm clocking of S&H, Noise etc.). Maybe that would be the idea, forget about the 'extraneous options' and reproduce the GX-1 synth layout.

About the only thing missing is a ribbon, but that was also under discussion...

Nice! Lots to think about there....

=========

For now I just want to tell M3me someone has made somewhat of a GX-1 VST.

Haven't had a close look yet but its here: http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54945

[mseven]

Hey

Richard Atkinson pointed this out, but at the time I missed the impact.

The percussion system is additive. Cumulative. NIMBOLOUS (Engineerous Geniositous)!

[Guest]

All these old percussion systems have sounds created by tuned resonant circuits set with a high-Q to allow them to ring (produce damped oscillation) when they get a step-input pulse. Each instrument has a dedicated trigger line to trigger it's sound. Noise serves as the cymbal type sound source and is gated by the same sort of trigger pulse.

A ROM style chip stores the drum pattern bits (sequence of 1's & 0's) which allows them to be recalled to beat of the tempo clock. . The trigger pulses may be shaped according to the envelope of the sound desired. The schematics of the E-70/50 etc. have these same resonant circuits/trigger logic.

This fellow demo's his analog drum circuit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW2JspV1gmw
His Blog shows the Cymbal synth: http://makingofadrumsynth.blogspot.c...abel/drumsynth

In theory, you can go inside the organ rhythm machine board and tweak the resonant properties of the circuit in much the same way as the fellow does in his circuits - or you could bring out the trigger lines to drive an external drum module with trigger inputs etc.

Hey

Richard Atkinson pointed this out, but at the time I missed the impact.

The percussion system is additive. Cumulative. NIMBOLOUS (Engineerous Geniositous)!

[mseven]

Keyman your panel is a heck of a setup:

<img src="http://www.organforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9887&d=1369442090" style=width:1000px;">

[Guest]

Thanks, it's based mostly on Marc's recommendations, but it got a bit unwieldy once I added my own ideas - hard to limit yourself when you see the possiblities. Right now it's still a 'concept' as I have a second CSY-2 Synth to add into the implementation. I'll have to look at the approach taken on synths such as the Arp Odyssey and other duophonic designs.

Again, it's not directly related to the E-series, but you could implement some of the related ideas, which is why I brought it up....Otherwise, maybe a separate thread would be better once things progress a bit....

[Guest]

I should say that I've exercised the related functionalities of the panel even though it hasn't been constructed as such...

[mseven]

I should say that I've exercised the related functionalities of the panel even though it hasn't been constructed as such...

Cool, so the protoboards in your photo (and the protoboard not photographed) actually do what the panel shows..? Very cool. As you say, the move from working proto circuit to something more rugged is big.

I've started to wonder whether the cool SoGX mods and other additions can be applied to the average $25 Electone, turning it into a $2000 supersweet analog synth.