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Unlocking the Yamaha E70

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  • Atta Boy MSEVEN ...... " I'm so pissed off at everything, but anyways ".....Tell it like it is mate ! haha..

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    • Holy flying **** Cairns.. this makerspace is near you!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7f_SgXscwg

      We have 1/50th the space.. Now I'm _reeeally_ pissed off :)

      Anyway, now time to start soldering up those pots. With the 2mm gone, the pins are accessible...
      Click image for larger version

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      For those who know the Son Of GX instructions, it seems like using plugs is a good idea as opposed to hardwiring although the soldering basically doubles. The rs data cable/cables are on-hand.

      So next MakerSpace visit will likely solder the 33 pots to 66 tiny pcboards, then solder the boards to the rs data male plugs.

      And after Sketchup'ing the lettering, they can be burnt into the panels and soon after filled with white paint. ETA? 3 weeks :o
      Last edited by mseven; 11-04-2013, 04:40 AM.
      Mark Sutin

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      • Great to hear the planning did the trick...sorry 'we' couldn't fly in to help shorten that ETA - maybe your fellow west coaster, Flametop ( :devil: ), may have some related soldering experience? :-/

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        • Wouldn't that be great to spend a few weeks or months in an analog organ workshop.... designing, testing.. that could be pretty amazing!

          As far as flametop, looks like he just flamed out.. oh well.

          Originally posted by keyman2 View Post
          Great to hear the planning did the trick...sorry 'we' couldn't fly in to help shorten that ETA - maybe your fellow west coaster, Flametop ( :devil: ), may have some related soldering experience? :-/
          Mark Sutin

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          • I could of sworn he once tried to wedge a CSY-1 into an E-70 or something similar - apparently having a devil of a time with trying to make it all work! :-/

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            • Here we are! :o - frankenstein synth transplant of a CSY-1 synth into a D-85!:emotion-60::devil::emotion-60:

              http://www.organforum.com/forums/sho...lo-CSY-1-synth

              Originally posted by keyman2 View Post
              I could of sworn he once tried to wedge a CSY-1 into an E-70 or something similar - apparently having a devil of a time with trying to make it all work! :-/

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              • ":emotion-60::devil::emotion-60:" Lol. I didn't hear much more about that transplant; I'm guessing that frankesynth didn't get born. Maybe if Fred talked with David Borenson(?) it might have.. Remember his 2 d-85's stacked??

                So having planed the panels to the correct thickness, I tried cutting tiny (3x4 hole) protoboards to fit two per potentiometer, to reinforce the pins and allow for proper connecting of the wires. But that ain't gonna happen. The protoboard material is too hard to cut, or too crumbly. It was suggested to solder directly to the pins.

                Many of the connections I made soldering directly to pins on a socket in the keboard coupling switches just fell right off. So I'm wary of soldering to pins. Perhaps the much better soldering iron at the MakerSpace will make it work.

                Click image for larger version

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                Originally posted by keyman2 View Post
                Here we are! :o - frankenstein synth transplant of a CSY-1 synth into a D-85!:emotion-60:

                http://www.organforum.com/forums/sho...lo-CSY-1-synth
                Mark Sutin

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                • Yeah, that is a double-take the first time you catch Dave's photo :roll eyes: It took me a bit to realize that he hadn't just cut and pasted the one atop the other! :o

                  :emotion-48: Definite candidate for most creative example of keyboard stacking EVER ,with a close second from Flametop of course. :emotion-24:

                  The teeny little perfboard would be a nice idea, but like you say, too brittle, maybe use a mini hacksaw to cut the lengths... or even a sharp Xacto knife, if you're very careful, to score the length using the adjacent row of holes.

                  Or, if the pins are standard 0.1 inch spacing, you could do something like take a wire wrap socket, remove one row and turn it on it's side and affix the body to the wood via a dab of hot glue/epoxy(?) so that its pins intersect with those of the slider to create a stable solder point and help hold the slider in place. Likely not the idea you will run with, but just to give you some sort of comparative idea to build off of...possibly with a compatible connector? I'll be using some surplus Phoenix style plug and socket style connectors for my CSY-2A project (TBD).


                  Also, you'll want to do something about securing that cable to the panel so it doesn't flex/move and sheer/twist off you slider pins, though you'll have to have something compatible with the thinness of the board? Idea's are easy, figuring out if they're the right one and making it work is the perspiration part... :confused:

                  Strange that you say the soldered wires dropped off your coupling switches? Certainly would help if you could carefully loop the wire around the pin before you solder. Otherwise, basic electronic flux core solder should hold okay - don't know if you're using the newer 'clean solder' which is a little more problematic that way...

                  (Dang...ran out of smiley faces!)
                  Last edited by keyman2; 11-16-2013, 08:46 PM.

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                  • Hey KM!

                    Originally posted by keyman2 View Post
                    Strange that you say the soldered wires dropped off your coupling switches? Certainly would help if you could carefully loop the wire around the pin before you solder. Otherwise, basic electronic flux core solder should hold okay - don't know if you're using the newer 'clean solder' which is a little more problematic that way..
                    The concensus is definitely soldering directly to the pins, and strain relief. You're the only person who suggested wrapping the wire a bit. Almost makes me think I should go out a find a wire wrap tool. Then with solder, that's a guarantee.

                    I tried everything with the perfboard; there's just no way. It is interesting how the challenges pop up, but ever so satisfying when they're solved.

                    Thanks!

                    Mark

                    Originally posted by keyman2 View Post
                    Yeah, that is a double-take the first time you catch Dave's photo :roll eyes: It took me a bit to realize that he hadn't just cut and pasted the one atop the other! :o

                    :emotion-48: Definite candidate for most creative example of keyboard stacking EVER ,with a close second from Flametop of course. :emotion-24:

                    The teeny little perfboard would be a nice idea, but like you say, too brittle, maybe use a mini hacksaw to cut the lengths... or even a sharp Xacto knife, if you're very careful, to score the length using the adjacent row of holes.

                    Or, if the pins are standard 0.1 inch spacing, you could do something like take a wire wrap socket, remove one row and turn it on it's side and affix the body to the wood via a dab of hot glue/epoxy(?) so that its pins intersect with those of the slider to create a stable solder point and help hold the slider in place. Likely not the idea you will run with, but just to give you some sort of comparative idea to build off of...possibly with a compatible connector? I'll be using some surplus Phoenix style plug and socket style connectors for my CSY-2A project (TBD).


                    Also, you'll want to do something about securing that cable to the panel so it doesn't flex/move and sheer/twist off you slider pins, though you'll have to have something compatible with the thinness of the board? Idea's are easy, figuring out if they're the right one and making it work is the perspiration part... :confused:

                    Strange that you say the soldered wires dropped off your coupling switches? Certainly would help if you could carefully loop the wire around the pin before you solder. Otherwise, basic electronic flux core solder should hold okay - don't know if you're using the newer 'clean solder' which is a little more problematic that way...

                    (Dang...ran out of smiley faces!)
                    Mark Sutin

                    Comment


                    • Wire Wrap would be a totally different scenario that used square pins with edges that bite into the wrapped wire, and there used to be a wiring pen with a coated wire you could solder through, but apparently the fumes are toxic. Otherwise, a simple looping of the wire to be soldered is a good way to keep it together while you solder it... otherwise, it that's too tight, if you orient the anchor point of the wire allowing you to can have the wire tension against the lead by placing it on the closer edge of the pin (sort of hard to explain without a diagram).... whatever works.

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                      • Ah right, right, now I remember... no wire stripping is needed with wire wrap. it was a few years ago what wire wrap was popular..!

                        I see what your suggesting about the tension and that sounds like a good plan. Whether looped or using tension, I suppose a small jig to prep the wires is called for.

                        BTW, I've been working with the microcontrollers a bit lately, integrating them into "living websystems". In that pursuit, yesterday I happened across digitally-controlled potentiometers again, and it reminded me of the plan to make available digitally-contolled variable resistance control for the filter parameters of the Son Of GX breakouts. Interesting that digital pots can be non-volatile, so they will hold their last value when the organ is turned off.

                        Now pretty convinced that the more parts&labor intensive LFOs I had planned to use might generally be obsolete now - replaced by Arduino. And what could be better than being able to reprogram the LFO as needed? Well I guess adding a screen to show the waveforms would be better...


                        Originally posted by keyman2 View Post
                        Wire Wrap would be a totally different scenario that used square pins with edges that bite into the wrapped wire, and there used to be a wiring pen with a coated wire you could solder through, but apparently the fumes are toxic. Otherwise, a simple looping of the wire to be soldered is a good way to keep it together while you solder it... otherwise, it that's too tight, if you orient the anchor point of the wire allowing you to can have the wire tension against the lead by placing it on the closer edge of the pin (sort of hard to explain without a diagram).... whatever works.
                        Mark Sutin

                        Comment


                        • When I did wire wrapping, I had to strip two inches and put all of it, plus another quarter inch into the tool. Then spin it over the pin. The first turn was insulated and the remainder bare wire on the pin, lined up very neat, like a good hose reel. The pins were square which caused each corner to bite the wire four times per turn. This type of connection was almost immune to corrosion and the only thing better was solder. At least that's how I remember it. We're considering going back to wire wrap on some current communications work at the transit authority at which I work.
                          Roland Atelier AT-90s, AT-80s, AT-70, 30, and 15. Roland VR-760 combo
                          Yamaha S-90, Kurzweil PC-3x, Casio Privia PX-330, Roland E-80, G-70, BK-5, Leslie 760, 820
                          Moved on:
                          Allen 3MT/Hauptwerk, Technics GA1, Yamaha HX1, AR80, numerous Hammonds, including 2 M's, an L, 2 A-100's, XP-2, XM-1/1c, & an XK-3. Roland Atelier AT-30, 60r, 80, & 20r(2 units), and a slew of Leslies (147, 142, 760, 900, 330).
                          Korg Triton Le-61, Casio Privia PX-310 & 110, and Kurzweils: PC-2x, SP-88, Pro-III, K1000

                          Comment


                          • I always thought wire wrap was pretty good, though messy looking. Apparently its a little too long ago for me to remember easily how it worked... now after reading your note, I recall a funky little stripper right inside the wrapping tool.

                            How would your communications work benefit from going back to wire wrap?

                            (Ah, Atlanta... I remember a month staying in Athens. Temp was 100F, humidity was 99%, and the girls wore the best summer skirts.)


                            Originally posted by Kurzweil View Post
                            When I did wire wrapping, I had to strip two inches and put all of it, plus another quarter inch into the tool. Then spin it over the pin. The first turn was insulated and the remainder bare wire on the pin, lined up very neat, like a good hose reel. The pins were square which caused each corner to bite the wire four times per turn. This type of connection was almost immune to corrosion and the only thing better was solder. At least that's how I remember it. We're considering going back to wire wrap on some current communications work at the transit authority at which I work.
                            Mark Sutin

                            Comment


                            • Ok it's starting to make sense... with all of this great new tech, how can one not want to convert the Son of GX into a digitally-controlled analog synth-monster?

                              So adding some things up... instead of putting hardware pots directly to the Electone boards, digital pots (ie: the MCP414X) go in their place. Then its a case of the inputs to the digital pots.. Where might that come from - just about anywhere.

                              The digital pots can get controlled by the hardware pots. With some switching, other inputs in can go in, for example some formerly planned discrete LFO circuitry.

                              But! How about throwing the big new Arduino Mega microcontroller in there. The Mega has "54 digital input/output pins and 16 analog inputs". Now the inputs can come from any source imaginable.

                              With that setup, presets can be saved! Effects can be stacked, layered. The entire LFO can be done in software. I'm sure I'm overlooking another 100 benefits. Ahhh!

                              All while keeping the critical analog signal path virtually intact. For variety, one could use two or three digital pots instead of just one, to add a slight detuning effect.

                              I knew this image looked just too simple. Everything needs some computer chips these days.

                              Click image for larger version

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                              Mark Sutin

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                              • Orr, instead of using digital pots, apply variable voltages to the pins in the E-30/50/70, which is likely a better route.
                                Mark Sutin

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